July | 2013 | Blogger Priest

Anti-Catholic Lies: Jesuits Started the Civil War

Posted on July 10, 2013 by Father Joe

Anti-Catholic Proposition:

Lincoln: “Jesuits Started the Civil War”

Explanation – The following is a brief debate between over the Know-Nothing propaganda which asserts that the Jesuits started the Civil War and killed Lincoln. It is all foolishness for weak and prejudiced minds. The discussion eventually digressed into the area of modern-day Nazis or racists who hate both the Jews, the state of Israel and the Catholic Church.

LOU:

Honest Abe cited the Jesuits as the instigators of the Civil War! I wonder what other wars they might have instigated! Here is the quote: “This war would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits. We owe it to Popery that we now see our land reddened with the blood of her noblest sons. Though there were great differences of opinion between the South and North, on the question of slavery, neither Jeff Davis nor any one of the leading men of the Confederacy would have dared to attack the North, had they not relied on the promise of the Jesuits, that, under the mask of Democracy, the money and the arms of the Roman Catholics, even the arms of France, were at their disposal if they would attack us” (Charles Chiniquy, Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, The Wickliffe Press, Protestant Truth Society, Wickliffe Avenue, 104 Hendon Lane, Finchley, London, N3., 1885, p. 388).

FATHER JOE:

Lies and the fools who believe them! I am told by a reputable historian that the anti-Catholic press (20 years after Lincoln’s death) fabricated the quote. It does not reflect Lincoln’s respect for Catholics, although he had inherited some of the common Protestant misconceptions about Catholics in vogue at that time. It does not appear in his collected writings, which I own. Lincoln even engaged Bishop Hughes of New York to appeal to the French not to aid the South in the War Between the States. Oddly enough, the same Know-Nothings who popularized the lie you quote were refuted by Lincoln on August 24, 1855: “I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can anyone who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ‘all men are created equal.’ We now practically read it ‘all men are created equal, except negroes.’ When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read ‘all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.’ When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no presence of loving liberty—to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”

PETAR:

I just started studying secret societies. The Jesuits are a military order and always have been.

FATHER JOE:

The Society is a religious order, not a military one.

PETAR:

They instigated the long series of religious wars that occurred during the Catholic Anti-Reformation, and their perpetual political terrorism is exactly what led to Pope Clement XIV issuing a Papal BULL to ban them for eternity, for the sake of the peace, at the request of the French government.

FATHER JOE:

No, they peacefully preached the Gospel in foreign lands and many of them suffered martyrdom. They were defenders of the papacy; their suppression was the frenzied response to fear and a revolutionary spirit. The old Catholic Encyclopedia states: “We look forward a generation, and we see that every one of the thrones, the pope’s not excluded, which had been active in the Suppression is overwhelmed. France, Spain, Portugal, and Italy become, and indeed still are, a prey to the extravagance of the Revolutionary movement. The Suppression of the Society was due to the same causes which in further development brought about the French Revolution. These causes varied somewhat in different countries. In France, many influences combined, as we shall see, from Jansenism to Free-thought, to the then prevalent impatience with the old order of things (see France, VI, 172). Some have thought that the Suppression was primarily due to these currents of thought. Others attribute it chiefly to the absolutism of the Bourbons. For, though in France the king was averse to the Suppression, the destructive forces acquired their power because he was too indolent to exercise control, which at that time he alone possessed. Outside France it is plain that autocracy, acting through high-handed ministers, was the determining cause.”

PETAR:

I know that Adam Weishaupt was trained by the Jesuits, and I know that he was their puppet when he created the Illuminati.

FATHER JOE:

Okay, it is clear that you are either playing games or just a wacko. Weishaupt went to a Jesuit school but he became an enemy of the Church: “…he came into ever sharper collision with the loyal adherents of the Church and with those who were influential in government circles. Furthermore, his obstinate nature led him to quarrel with almost everyone with whom his intercourse was at all prolonged; he felt the need of a powerful secret organization to support him in the conflict with his adversaries and in the execution of his rationalistic schemes along ecclesiastical and political lines. At first (1774), he aimed at an arrangement with the Freemasons. Closer inquiry, however, destroyed his high estimate of this organization, and he resolved to found a new society which, surrounded with the greatest possible secrecy, would enable him most effectually to realize his aims and could at all times be precisely adapted to the needs of the age and local conditions.”

PETAR:

I know that the Illuminati created the French Revolution, and I know that Napoleon was their puppet.

FATHER JOE:

The culprits were revolutionary ideas and poverty.

PETAR:

Napoleon attacked the Papal States and took them hostage, and this is what forced Pope Pious VII to restore the Jesuits, despite the Papal BULL of his predecessor.

FATHER JOE:

The Jesuits were restored when people came to their senses. Passivity to the Church’s real enemies permitted the suppression.

PETAR:

The Jesuits teamed up with the Zionists when Rothschild became the official bank of the Catholic Church, and the Knights of Malta are the military wing of this “New World Order” movement.

FATHER JOE:

Oh my goodness, are you really a NAZI? Now the conspiracy nuts have found my blog!

PETAR:

Skull And Bones runs America, and guess who they work for as well?

FATHER JOE:

A college secret society condemned by the Church rules America? Pleeease!

PETAR:

Even Masonic Saudi Arabia and its Wahabi Islam stooges are ultimately under the mind control of your “Black Pope.”

FATHER JOE:

Mind Control? Yes, and we all take our orders from the Great Spider from the Andromeda galaxy!

PETAR:

The New World Order funded the Bolsheviks, they funded Hitler, and they created the Holocaust in order to institute Israel.

FATHER JOE:

Really, are you serious? I did not know they gave Internet access to patients in the insane asylum.

PETAR:

Don’t you realize that they are intentionally setting the stage for Armageddon?

FATHER JOE:

Actually, I have it on good authority that the End of Days is being plotted by Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck.

PETAR:

The Beast of Revelations has 10 horns, and why don’t you take a guess as to how many “assistancies” your “Society of Jesus” has divided the world into.

FATHER JOE:

Actually the beast only has 9 horns now, as he broke one off using it to as a can opener.

PETAR:

They aren’t even Catholic; they plan on destroying all religions, and creating global Lucifarianism, just like the Roman game plan of Revelation dictates.

FATHER JOE:

Actually, they plan to establish a religion that worships Barney the singing dinosaur.

PETAR:

Please wake up and stop spewing propaganda on behalf of this genocidal force that has terrorized the earth for centuries, and is moving to kill 90% of the world’s population soon.

FATHER JOE:

Oh my goodness, I am so afraid! Thank you ever so much for telling me! NOT!

PETAR:

I am very pleasantly surprised that you had the courage to publish and respond to my comments. My guess would be that most priests would avoid such a public debate about their church at all costs, considering the atrocious nature of the allegations. I would say that the Catholic Church is well known for sweeping things under the rug for as long as possible, but you would have proved yourself to be the exception in this case. It really is wonderful that you had the courage to publish and respond to my allegations, but it would have also shown a lot more decency if you would have avoided chopping up my comments to insert your own responses within. It really damages the flow of my communication, and it also makes it a lot more difficult for me to respond to your comments in return. The fair form of debate would be if you would allow my comments to appear in full, while you would respond in kind. Please show me that the Catholic Church can be fair as well.

FATHER JOE:

I am not the whole Catholic Church, just a priest with a Blog. The Church is accused of many things, some of it quite untrue. In any case, this is my Blog… my RULES.

PETAR:

I don’t mind that you feel the need to ridicule my opinions, or slander me as a “NAZI,” in fact I find it amusing that a priest should behave in such a childish manner, but I do feel a terrible storm of disagreement with the points that you are attempting to make.

FATHER JOE:

Not slander, but descriptive labels; what you talk about is peculiar and has little substance in the real world.

PETAR:

I maintain that the Jesuit order is a military one, and I offer the following counter argument: Any honest investigation will reveal that Ignatius Loyola was a complete Catholic fanatic, and he was also extremely determined to spread Catholicism throughout the whole world.

FATHER JOE:

The mission mandate of Jesus Christ requires that we as Catholics take the Gospel and the Church to the whole world. What you call fanaticism we call Christian discipleship.

PETAR:

The Jesuit order was created with a Papal Bull entitled: “Regimini militantis ecclesiae” (To the Government of the Church Militant).

FATHER JOE:

The term “Church Militant” is a title for the Church on earth, sometimes called the Pilgrim Church, today. The victory is won in Christ, but the devil is spiteful and we are still battling powers and principalities.

PETAR:

Loyola was an ex-soldier, and Jesuits are governed by a “Father General.” Ignatius also referred to his original disciples as “The Company of Jesus.”

FATHER JOE:

Yes, Ignatius was formerly a soldier who put down the sword and took up the cross. The Jesuits keep company with Jesus and with one another. They also call themselves the Society of Jesus or just the Society.

PETAR:

Loyola’s “Spiritual Exercises” would train Jesuits to deny themselves, and to thoroughly mortify themselves, and to believe that “black is white and white is black,” if a superior Jesuit would state so.

FATHER JOE:

The Spiritual Exercises is a form of meditation or prayer, particularly used among retreatants these days, either truncated or for thirty-day retreats. You can buy copies of the devotion in regular bookstores. The citation in question, maybe a bit much today, is “What seems to me to be white, I will believe to be black if the hierarchical Church thus determines it.” There is no disavowal of reason or delusion about reality here; rather, it is a form of hyperbole about trusting the Church and our religious superiors. The Church arbitrates and defines divine truths from revelation: Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. The Holy Spirit protects the Church and her teaching office. The posture of a disciple is humility and unswaying obedience.

PETAR:

This allowed Loyola to build a strict hierarchy within the Jesuit order, which he then used as a military intelligence apparatus within the Catholic Church.

FATHER JOE:

Catholicism and most of her Orders are hierarchical in structure. This is not unique to Jesuits. Missionaries were not spies, but sometimes as in England, they had to move about secretly given that a death sentence was placed upon the heads of Roman Catholic priests. Similarly, the penal laws in Maryland forced clergy into roles as landowners and to travel as tinkers during the colonial period.

PETAR:

The Jesuits would build many schools, and also train the children of Catholic nobility.

FATHER JOE:

Christian education is a hallmark of the Jesuit life. They have done much to advance learning. English Catholic schools and seminaries were established in France when the British crown outlawed the Church.

PETAR:

The Jesuits became popular court confessors, and they used this position in manipulating Catholic rulers to instigate the long series of brutal religious wars that occurred during the Catholic Anti-Reformation.

FATHER JOE:

The Jesuits were the chief defenders of the papacy and were very successful in combating the Protestant rebellion. The wars or violence between rival Catholic and Protestant princes were instigated for many reasons, and not just because of religious differences.

PETAR:

It is undeniable that the Catholic Church was at this time heavily involved in Empire building, and the renewed Office of the Inquisition showed exactly what kind of disposition the Church had towards Protestants.

FATHER JOE:

The Church followed the various political states in their acts of discovery and exploration. The Inquisition was often operated directly by the states themselves, with churchmen employed to enforce uniformity in faith. Extremes are often exaggerated by anti-Catholic critics. Remember, the Church was also coming out of a period where Europe had been invaded by Islamic authority and power. Missionaries sought to convert the new peoples and pilgrims sought religious freedom in new lands. The negative spin you place upon this is very much in error.

PETAR:

The Council of Trent would also represent how the Church felt when they labeled each value of the Reformation as “accursed” and “anathema.”

FATHER JOE:

The reformation was not an expression of pure Christianity or godliness. Indeed, it would set the stage for a further break from all Christianity, as with the bloody French Revolution. The Catholic Counter-revolution accomplished many of the reforms wanted by those who became Protestants. Trent was one of our greatest Councils. The anathema statements were a way of speaking, by which truths were affirmed and heresies condemned. There is nothing wrong about using such a formula.

PETAR:

What resulted with the Jesuits should come as no surprise then.

FATHER JOE:

The Jesuit martyrs in Asia, England and in North America would be heralded as heroes of faith. Schools were started that later became some of the world’s greatest universities and places of learning. Certain Know-Nothings would grow to hate the Jesuits because they were so successful at apologetics. They slandered with falsified charges that you are promoting as your research. The Jesuits preserved the Church and helped her to grow.

PETAR:

And though you may deny this interpretation of history, you cannot deny the fact Pope Pious XIV himself stated that the Jesuits were the cause of perpetual conflict, and that they needed to be suppressed eternally for the sake of the peace, when he issued his Papal Bull of suppression.

FATHER JOE:

The Jesuits were suppressed (1750-1773) by Pope Clement XIV (there is no Pius XIV) because of hysteria and a lack of good sense on the part of others. The Pope was pressured to do it; however, it would later be lifted: Never had faithful sons of the Church been treated so shamelessly. The reasons were political, monarchs were afraid for the kingdoms. Jesuits were theologically sound. France and Portugal were fighting over territory. They were seeking for some fall-guy to take the blame for their troubles. The Jesuits were highly successful in drawing people back to the Church. This could affect the various alliances. However, their suppression made matters worse, the secular voices of the Enlightenment could advance unencumbered.

PETAR:

It is also a fact that he then lived his last days in mortal fear of assassination by the Jesuits, and it is also a fact that he was poisoned shortly thereafter and died a prolonged tortuous death.

FATHER JOE:

You even got the name of the pope wrong. Your comments are riddled with inaccuracies and lies. The suppression of the Jesuits was by Pope Clement XIV in July 1773, not Pope Pius XIV. “His work was hardly accomplished, before Clement XIV, whose usual constitution was quite vigorous, fell into a languishing sickness, generally attributed to poison. No conclusive evidence of poisoning was ever produced. The claims that the Pope was poisoned were denied by those closest to him, and as the Annual Register for 1774 stated, he was over 70 and had been in ill health for some time.”

PETAR:

You may also claim that the Illuminati had nothing to do with the French Revolution, and everything that happened towards the direct benefit of the Jesuits because of it, but if one examines the history of the Illuminati before its suppression, then one will also discover that the French Revolution was nothing but an extension of this organization.

FATHER JOE:

Ah, you do know that the Church was on the losing side of the French Revolution? Countless priests were murdered and churches destroyed. If there are Illuminati; they are no friends of Catholics or the Jesuits.

PETAR:

So why should one assume that Adam Weishaupt was the true enemy of the Jesuits, when he even modeled the Illuminati after the Jesuit structure?

FATHER JOE:

Sometimes the enemies of the Church will steal elements from the Church to suit themselves. Hitler was enamored by the structure of the Jesuits too, but he deplored their faith and defense of the papacy. You fail to make important distinctions between accidentals and the matters of substance. Adam Weishaupt was educated at a Jesuit school but was a married layman, not a Jesuit priest. May our Lord Jesus open your eyes to the truth and help you to turn away from anti-Catholic fantasies and calumny.

PETAR:

It really is unfortunate that a representative of the Catholic Church insists on using what I would characterize as an underhanded debate tactic, by persistently inserting his own comments in the midst of mine, as opposed to just formulating his own separate responses, in what would be the civil manner in exchanging ideas. It really makes correspondence very difficult, but I suppose that is the whole point of this tactic.

FATHER JOE:

You received more courtesy than you deserved as an anti-Catholic and anti-Semitic bigot leeching off of the Know-Nothing propaganda of a century ago.

PETAR:

The Catholic Church spent a lot of time and energy avoiding all of its culpability in rampant child molestation within the Church, and I guess that this is just another example of the same kind of thing.

FATHER JOE:

You are just trying to hit back in a soft spot because your lies revealed your terrible ignorance and prejudice masquerading as enlightenment.

PETAR:

I have many, many, thoughts that I would like to discuss with you about your responses, but I am not going to spend the energy that I would have to spend, in order to deal with the manner in which you avoid civil discussion.

FATHER JOE:

I think you have already exhausted the few thoughts you could spare. I allowed your comments on my Blog for comedic value, not for any serious debate. Everyone had a good laugh, but now it is time to say goodbye to such foolishness. Not one of your points was left standing.

PETAR:

I would just like to say that you are correct that I made a mistake and named “Pious XIV” instead of “Clement XIV,” but that does not change the general truth of what I am saying.

FATHER JOE:

There is no truth in your charges to change. You cannot get basic facts (large or small) right. You do not even know the names of the figures about which you speak. Why engage in you conspiracy theories if you are so much in the dark? Are you mentally ill in that you need to enhance your importance by throwing mud at the Catholic Church?

PETAR:

You may claim that these were “know nothings” who claimed that Clement was poisoned by Jesuits, and claimed that Jesuits were a perpetual threat to the peace, but I maintain that both Clement himself, and also many other officials with the Catholic Church at the time, were 100% correct on their characterization of Jesuit tyranny.

FATHER JOE:

The Know Nothings were a political entity that hated and ridiculed the Church, making up all kinds of sensational stories. They no longer exist although anti-Catholicism remains the one tolerated bigotry in the U.S. You quoted no papal statements about “Jesuit tyranny” because the cause for suppression was really a political appeasement that backfired. Revolutions still came and the Holy Father’s strongest defenders had been disbanded. Later the decision was rectified and the Jesuits were restored.

PETAR:

I urge any individual interested to investigate the obvious connections between the Jesuit order, Adam Weishaupt’s Illuminati, The French Revolution, the restoration of the Jesuits, the rise of the Illuminati Zionist Rothschild, Rothschild fusing with the Catholic Church, Rothschild associates creating the Bolsheviks, Rothschild associates propping up Hitler, Hitler modeling the SS after the Jesuit order, Illuminati controlled British Empire propping up radical Wahhabi Islam, Vatican Knights of Malta creating the CIA with NAZI war criminals, and Illuminati Skull and Bonesman engineering 911 while the Vatican maintains ever closer ties to this 4th NAZI Reich.

FATHER JOE:

[I can’t stop laughing.] Just when I thought there was no more humor to derive from you; you entertain us with a long ludicrous tirade. No defense is needed. Anyone who would believe these slurs should be locked up in a padded room.

PETAR:

There really is a never ending amount of issues to discuss, but unfortunately you make it impossible to do so in a completely civil manner. Nonetheless, thank you for allowing me some opportunity to express my ideas.

FATHER JOE:

Oh yes, so many other issues… Hey we have RCIA classes coming up in the fall… want to join the Church’s spy agency? (Still laughing!)

ATRUECHRISTIAN:

After stumbling upon this page, and reading through here, I am appalled. What church are you with Father Joe? Totally ridiculous, I am ashamed to be associated with people like you. In my church if a priest called someone a NAZI they would be fired immediately. I bet you wouldn’t talk like that to his face.

FATHER JOE:

Did you miss something in the conversation? This is a conspiracy fanatic. You do know that there are still self-professed Nazis, right? I am talking the whole show…. swastikas, white supremacist, anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denier, etc. He does not deny the label. It did not pass my notice that you attacked me but said nothing about his latest comments?

PETAR:

The very last thing that I would like to point out to you is that many Orthodox Jews also agree that Zionists helped create the Holocaust in order to create Israel.

Here is what they have to say on the topic: [link deleted].

I’m curious if you would arbitrarily accuse them of being “anti-Semitic” or “Nazi’s” as well!

FATHER JOE:

I do not link to such offensive sites. Just as there are traitors to Catholicism, I can only pity those who are ashamed of their Jewishness. They should be proud because revelation comes from the Jews. Within the context of salvation history, the Jews are truly God’s People of the promise. The more you try to defend yourself, the more convinced I become about who and what you are.

LADY GODLESS:

Father Joe said: “Just as there are traitors to Catholicism, I can only pity those who are ashamed of their Jewishness. They should be proud because revelation comes from the Jews. Within the context of salvation history, the Jews are truly God’s People of the promise.”

I don’t know what site Petar linked to, but here goes…

As I understand it, the reason that some Haredim give for rejecting the current state of Israel is that God hasn’t sanctioned its existence, and therefore neither can they. Israel was supposed to be refounded and Diaspora regathered at the coming of the Messiah and the beginning of the Messianic Age — i.e., not yet.

In other words, it’s an obey-God’s-law-no-matter-what thing, not a self-hate thing.

Also, ultra-Orthodox aren’t the only people who accuse some Zionists of collaboration. The writer Lenni Brenner, who is secular, has written extensively on this topic. It’s a touchy subject, but still not solely the province of wackos.

In fact, Brenner is how I came to hear about this stuff. He’s written for Counterpunch and other Left publications.

FATHER JOE:

I am very strong on Palestinian rights and weak on Zionist nationalism. But this critic would take things even further… he is no friend of Catholics or Jews. Madalen, you really want no part of this person’s agenda.

THE BARON:

What does it matter if Petar and I are Nazis? It doesn’t mean we totally agree with Hitler. Anyway, we have as much right to speak our mind as anyone else.

It has been over half a century since WWII. It is time to reclaim a good idea that went a little haywire.

It is proven by test scores that certain races are intellectually superior. The white races have led the way for civilization and others have clung like parasites. Some lesser races might make better basketball players and sanitation workers. As for the Jews, their money runs the planet. Zionism plagues us in Palestine and in their other residence of choice, New York.

How did Father Joe find out about us? That is what I want to know! I have no doubt those Jesuit assassins are behind this. They were behind the murder of Lincoln and many more contemporary catastrophes. It is time to unite against the tyranny of the black pope and all popes.

Terrorism today is not the work of ignorant Muslims. The papists exploit the mongrel races to their bidding.

FATHER JOE:

Maybe I should explain to people that I sometimes make statements after deleting and editing posts? I suppose the end result is that I come off sounding harsher and more judgmental than I actually am. I have left this post alone to prove a point. Usually comments like this are quickly deleted.

TRIBUTE 13:

Remarks are edited…

Hi, I’m a first time poster. I’m not big on conspiracy theory at all. I don’t believe that 9/11 was staged. I don’t think that crop circles are made by aliens.

However, conspiracy theories aside, it’s not a “theory” that Hitler and the Third Reich practiced Pagan and Wiccan rituals and attempted to call upon evil spirits to ensure their victories. They were the real nuts. This subject has been explored and proven. I really wouldn’t be surprised if they used organizations like the Jesuits or whatever remnants of other societies for him to accomplish his goal.

God gave you this divine privilege to help people, not ridicule them. If this man is mentally ill, as you seem to believe, does he not deserve the same treatment as regular human beings? He is just a man trying to converse and ask questions. Bless you.

FATHER JOE:

Dear Mike, if I wronged this man, then I am sorry. But I am privy to information that I have not shared with you. There may be a degree of mental illness, but there might also be a case of real evil and sometimes evil requires a name. You are only 16 years old and I have been around a lot longer than you have. I intended no slur based upon heated emotions but a label that best described a certain mentality; indeed, a name that some twisted souls claim for themselves, even today. Maybe the world from the perspective of North Carolina looks like a nicer place than it actually is? And yet, I know you have had more than your share of troubles. His lies and baiting against Catholics, Jews and others exemplifies terrible prejudices which can result in people getting hurt. I have little patience for such things. While I do not hold with bias against our good Jesuits, you write well and I would urge you to keep up with your learning. Continue to work with computers, play your guitar, and try to find faith and hope despite difficult living arrangements and so many challenges. I will keep you in my prayers.

PETAR:

Zionists helped create the Holocaust, and you claim that it is “offensive”, merely because it proves how wrong you are.

You are nothing but a Papal propagandist, and I fully believe that if it was possible to criminally investigate Rome, then most of your entire gang would be in prison.

If there is one thing that is more pathetic than a person who supports evil, it is person who does so while feigning sanctity. Shame on you, you are an extremely poor excuse for a human being.

FATHER JOE:

You are entitled to your opinion, but thankfully God is my judge… not you.

XIMENES:

I’m not here to take a side on any of the issues. However, I do want to inform you where this Petar fellow gets his information. He more-than-likely bases all his statements and arguments off of stuff that he’s read from Eric Phelps’ “Vatican Assassins” or a site that supports it. I’ve heard some of that exact material from some of those aforementioned sources, and believe me, that Phelps guy really did cook up a complicated Jesuit/Masonic/Illuminist/Islamic/Zionist/Nazi conspiracy theory. I haven’t read it, as I’m a jobless sixteen-year-old and I don’t have money to get the third edition (the “most accurate”). Plus, it would be a pain reading the second edition online… but if you want to understand where this Petar guy’s coming from, I suggest you look into it.

It’s a long book, I’ve heard, but it will either enlighten you for/against what is being or will simply give you a laugh of sorts. And neither of those can be so bad.

I don’t think Petar’s mentally ill. He’s just quoting stuff that he read without telling where it came from. And he’s throwing stuff out there too quickly to make himself sound credible.

RAOUL THE MAGNIFICENT:

I am your judge, Joe. Be no more any papist. Lucifer is not God, but is the rebel. God punishes losifer.

FATHER JOE:

I will pray that God brings healing to your confused mind.

REBE 4 LIFE:

Pff if your a Nazi that means your a conformist meaning you have connections to the Jesuits too ;). Hitler Kissed the papal [deleted] and there is even pictures of him hanging out with some of them. I find it sad when people know the truth and yet they join retarded groups like Nazis knowing that Jesuits having deep connections with them. Remember the phrase divide and conquer? :l That’s how the system works by dividing us all and making us all fight each other….when the time comes of the mass awakening I’ll be sure to see you guys there when you’re fully awake 🙂

FATHER JOE:

Omar, people like you remind us all, that not only are some asleep, but there are others who seem hopelessly delusional. The Church condemned Nazism and other forms of atheistic and/or occult totalitarianism.

ME:

I saw the quote attributed to Lincoln from the Know Nothings on another site, and searched for it to confirm or deny its creditability, and your site came up. Thank you for the lucid explanation.

I was raised in an Anglican church, and therefore understand some of what it means to be Catholic. I am by no means an expert. Over the years my faith has grown. As a religious protestant I have never settled on a denomination, but instead have actively participated in churches with pastors who speak the simple truth, and Christians who are devoted to God.

I have met more than my share of those who claim to be Christians, but yet espouse doctrines of hate towards the Catholic Church. As a Christian, I intend to draw no Catholic – Christian with the use of the word Christian, I see myself as a defender of truth. Thus in these occasions I take the person aside and expose them to their ignorance. The person, most often, goes away thinking seriously about what I said.

I too find it sad that the Jesuits are commonly defamed by these people, as there is so much good that this order has accomplished.

Though I disagree in concept with the Papacy, that one man should hold such authority, the Catholic Church has resisted the temptation to cave into political pressures then the reformed churches (e.g. Nazism). This, I will admit, is most likely due to the power of the Papacy. A strong leader if motivated by godly ambition does a great deal to stem the tide of social pressure.

Filed under: Anti-Catholicism, Apologetics, Catholic, Commandments, Discipleship, Evangelization, Faith, Politics, Prophets, Religion, Social Justice | 5 Comments »

Jesús Luis de Jesus Miranda, Anti-Christ or Demented?

Posted on July 6, 2013 by Father Joe

This discussion was posted back in 2008. The word was out that the followers of Miranda were planning to disrupt the Masses and visit of Pope Benedict XVI to the United States. They did not even make a blip on the news radar. Back in 2012, Miranda predicted that his followers would be transformed with the ability to walk through walls and to go through fire unscathed. The day came and went with no change. Other cults were predicting the end of the world and the final judgment. But we are still here. While he claims to be Jesus (qualified as “the man”), in 2007, he also claimed to be the Antichrist. He defines this in terms of a demarcation between the Jesus of Scripture and his authority in this new manifestation. His followers mark their bodies with a 666 tattoo. It is all very peculiar.

FATHER JOE:

He says the lie begins in Rome, but he attacks all religions. It is almost unbelievable to me that people would worship this man and mark themselves with the sign of the beast. Their tactics are aggression and screaming. He is now setting his eyes on the growing Hispanic population in the U.S. He denies the name “Jesus of Nazareth” and yet it is this is the saving name. He denies great signs and wonders, as well as miracles: such would cater to a strange occult version of atheism and impugn the efficacy of the sacraments. He claims to be the fulfillment of all prophecies, making him the final term of all human history; this usurps the true Lord of his place as the eternal Word through whom all things came to be and by whom all will be consummated and judged. He denies exorcism by asserting that the devil was destroyed and demons do not exist; such a ploy would allow the devils to remain active in hiding with no saving name of Jesus to cast them out. Arguing that there is no sin, his teachings are absolutely sinister. This collapse of any notion of sin, leaving souls powerless and in bondage would make for a brilliant demonic battle plan. He redefines the number of the beast, 666, as the number for himself, a false Christ, and condemns traditional Christians as apostates. He contends that the number 666 means wisdom and prosperity. He associates it with worldly treasure. There is certainly nothing in his teachings about building up treasure for us in the kingdom to come.

Followers mark themselves with 666 / SSS:

The self-proclaimed Son of God:

The cult is spreading around the United States:

ALENA:

¡Jose Luis de Jesús Miranda es dios! Los sacerdotes son rapists. ¡El papa es un mentiroso! Usted no tiene ninguna derecha de hablar contra él. Protestaremos a papa y proclamaremos la verdad. ¡No hay diablo! ¡No hay pecado! Jesús mató al diablo y ha vencido pecado. Hay infierno no a pagar. Podemos tener placer y hacer lo que deseamos. Predestined a la vida eterna. El resto de las religiones deben ser destruidas. ¡Quémese sus catechisms! ¡Siga a Jesús el hombre!

FATHER JOE:

You are very mistaken. He is not God. The devil is defeated but still spiteful. Priests are good and bad, but mostly good. They bring us God’s mercy and the Eucharist. The commandments are still in force. How we live out our discipleship matters. We should avoid sin and do what is right. There is a hell for those who are God’s enemies. You should live in peace with others, despite differences. The Pope is Christ’s vicar, but unlike your Mister Miranda, he does not claim to be God. How can people be so foolish to join the cults? Here it is [the modern world] and people are worshipping a man like the Romans did the emperor in the time of Christ. Your religious leader is not Jesus. You have all been fooled.

PADRE STEVE:

Wow that man needs a lot of prayers… and so do all those who follow him. So many false saviors… very sad! You do a great job with the blog; keep up the good work! God bless!

MISTER 666:

Well, unlike you, MY GOD HAS BLESSED ME WITH EVERY BLESSING (Ephesians 1:3), and also TOOK sin away at the cross (Hebrews 9:26) and is back now with NO RELATION TO SIN (Hebrews 9:28)… He came, to you, LIKE A THEIF IN THE NIGHT because He´s back and you, like Pharisees, don´t see it (or maybe don´t want for it to be seen… since He´s uncovering all the hidden intentions of your heart!).

IT´S A FACT… Not subject to discussion: JOSE LUIS DE JESUS MIRANDA IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!!!! And, no matter whether you like it or not, WILL destroy your religious system with the SPIRIT OF HIS MOUTH aka with His preaching!!! (2 Thessalonians 2:8) is the gospel of Paul now… “too dangerous” for you? Well… to bad!

FATHER JOE:

You call yourself by the number of the beast, 666? You are the one who is judging good priests with a false verdict. You are the hypocritical Pharisee. Now I see that you are a follower of the cult leader Jesús Miranda? Well, that explains it. He and all his disciples have made the sign of the beast their own. You have been very much deceived. Your soul is in great peril.

CORINNE:

Anyone who feels they have to submit to anyone outside of themselves to gain access to God is fooling themselves unknowingly and standing on shaky ground.

God lives within the heart of man. They will not find God by looking for him in the hearts of others, nor will they find God by looking for him in religions. The heart is the True Church, there is no other.

The only way people are going to realize their mistakes however are by first making them….

Why others feel they have to seek their own divinity in God outside of themselves through others I will never be able to grasp, but they are being taken advantage of unknowingly and will soon find this out on their own. They will soon learn that this too is yet another detour leading them away from God. God talks with all his children, not just some….

FATHER JOE:

The notion that divinity can only be found within the individual person is a heretical teaching. We possess the divine spark but such does not exhaust the reality of God. Further, while there are false messiahs, Catholicism has no problem with mediation: in terms of a teaching authority and in worship. None of us come to God alone. As for the Church, the Catholic Church is the community of faith and the great sacrament of salvation established by Christ.

CORINNE:

Also, anytime someone looks to someone over and above God and worships them, it is a cult and its idolatry.

TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC:

As far as this man, God have mercy on his souls and convert him from his evil ways because he is just paving a path directly to Hell for millions of people. How can you be so blind? I don’t get it.

Pius XII claimed that “the sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin.” And he is correct as of yet.

CORINNE:

I see the comments here are being taken out of context so I will be moving on and will comment no further. Regarding individual divinity, you’ve twisted my words. We are each a unique individual in God and divine. Take care.

UNKNOWN:

Hey poor idiots— this guy is merely a joke. He gives a disgrace to the name of the Anti-Christ. The Anti-Christ is someone who is powerful and a man full of wisdom. This guy is a filthy scum. It is nice knowing he will burn in hell.

FATHER JOE:

If the title anti-Christ belongs to men other than Nero, then it is a label for any who oppose Christ. If it should also belong to a singular person at the end of human history, then I suspect that…

He, himself, will emerge from a contradictory religious background where selective toleration is preached, applauding one’s own but castigating others and deriding the noble values of our founding fathers;
He will be brilliant and applauded as an orator able to excite and inspire the masses to accept his mission of change;
He will be a person who has forfeited saving grace, redefining sin, not as a violation of God’s will but of one’s own principles;
He will seemingly come out of nowhere;
His rise to power will happen as if overnight;
His fame will far surpass any genuine acts of heroism or virtue;
He will not so much have supporters as worshippers who will chant his name;
Weak people generally regarded as nominally moral will support him even though he will espouse a narcissistic faith and will be explicitly tagged with a 100% pro-abortion and pro-gay rating;
He will be hailed as an icon for a people who were oppressed and will exert a mesmerizing power over the minds and judgments of others;
He will be hailed directly by infidels as the Messiah and indirectly so by fallen-away Christians;
He will come at a time of national unrest and global financial crisis;
He will come at a time when the children of Israel are militarily engaged with those around them and the blood of many innocent people will be spilt;
The whole world will rejoice at his coming and readily accept his authority over them;
He will suffer a grave wound from which he will miraculously recover, albeit through demonic power;
And then, things really get bad!

PEDRO:

If the people of this con-man actually knew the Bible, they would not be so easily brainwashed.

1. For one, in the Bible it states that the numbers 666 will be the mark IN their head or IN their right forehand not the arm. So why does Jose have it on his arm and not encouraging his followers to do what it says in the Bible… maybe because he doesn’t know the Bible? (Revelation 13:16)

2. The Bible also says that the anti-Christ will have a blow to the head. So where is the blow to the head that this man has— nowhere? (Revelation 13:3)

3. The anti-Christ is able to perform miracles. What ones has Jose done— none? (Revelation 13:13-14)

4. And finally, what happens if this con-man dies, what will his followers think?

In the Bible, Jesus states not to follow those who claim to be Christ and that he has said it ahead of time to know not to be deceived (Luke 21:8). Jose first claimed to be Jesus, and now the anti-Christ. Well, this guy is clearly mental. How sad for those who are brainwashed by him. It reminds me of a multi-level marketing company. All I can do is pray for his salvation and to repent before the King comes back.

BOB:

All this talk about Anti-Christ! Doesn’t anybody care about Uncle Apocalypse?

JOLENE:

This man is very dangerous and needs to be stopped! How pathetic that he thinks he’s Jesus Christ? What he needs is to be hospitalized in a mental institution! He could possibly be the Anti-Christ! Being Hispanic, I am very disappointed in the thousands of Hispanic Communities that have chosen to listen to his CR-P! Stop being so ignorant and weak, because that is what you are doing… being WEAK and IGNORANT! Every Christian out there needs to start praying very hard to God and asking him to rid of this insane man! No sin? C’mon now? I cannot be too sure of it… but I am almost positive that this man’s mother did not raise him like this! I am sure she is very, very, disappointed! He has brainwashed thousands of people and has ruined families, marriages, and even spoken bad about our Pope? Anybody that has to say follow me because I’m Jesus is Crazy, Insane, and Ignorant. The people who follow him are just as ignorant as he is!

DALIA:

I REALY WISH THAT THIS GUY CAN PROVE TO ME ABOUT EVERYTHING HE SAYS AND I REALY HOPE THAT HE AND HIS READERS READ THIS AND I HOPE THAT ONE DAY I CAN MEET THIS MAN AND TELL HIM ABOUT THE REAL JESUS CHRIST AND PROVE TO HIM THAT WHAT HE SAID IS WRONG AND TELL HIM ABOUT THE REAL GOD AND THE REAL TURTH AND ABOUT HIS LOVE AND WHO HE REALLY IS.

THIS IS REALY SAD CUZ ITS PEOPLE LIKE THIS THAT MAKES US REAL CHRISTAINS LOOK LIKE A JOKE!

I JUST HOPE THAT HE CAN BE STOPPED BUT NO ONE CAN. ONLY GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT AND ONE DAY WILL REVEAL EVEYTHING HE THINKS HE’S HIDING AND EVERY LIE HE’S BEEN SAYING TO PEOPLE.

I JUST HOPE HE FINDS THAT REAL GOD AND REPENTS FOR EVEYTHING HE’S BEEN SAYING AND DOING CUZ WHEN HE GETS JUDGED BY THE REAL GOD IN HEAVEN HE WILL GO STRAIT TO HELL AND BE BURNED FOR ETERNATY… AND THE PEOPLE THAT FOLLOWED HIM AND KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING IS WRONG!

I WILL PRAY FOR U GUYS AND I TELL U THERE IS NO ONE OUT THERE OR GREATER AND MORE POWERFUL THEN THE GOD IN HEAVEN. THANK U AND GOD BLESS U.

DAN:

I suspect that the guy attracts followers because they want an excuse for continuing in their sins. I doubt if he will attract too much attention & followers.

YASMIN:

To start with, if God would come to earth none of us would be here. And I believe his followers are so blind because they don’t read or understand the bible, this man is putting the bible in his own words and the people that don’t read or understand falls in his lies. If they only knew that all this that’s happening is written in the true word of God! And what’s sad about it is that all of them would be joining him in hell because of their ignorance. This man is just living off of people’s money, if he was the true God he would not need people to offer him cars, companies and their money, because God is the owner of all there is on earth because he made it and he also has the power to rule it whenever he feels like it.

LEEROY:

I’m a shamed to be a human being, knowing that I live in a time that people still believe in idiots like this guy. If you belong to this cult you are the dumbest of the dumb, the weakest of the weak minded and you are slowing down the intellectual evolution of the world. I hope the end is soon so all of these morons can be killed. Maybe the next race will get it right and abolish religion all together. No one represents God, not the pope, or any preacher and especially not this sick man.

FATHER JOE:

Sounds like there is plenty of sickness to go around. You have a very strange hope, indeed. Apart from the rejection of faith, in your anger is there not a terminal hatred of humanity itself? Further, if the race of man should run its course on this planet, why should we think that the intelligent termites (if evolution should dictate) that follow us will fare any better?

DON:

Besides, the number is 616, not 666. It is the number for Nero, and original scrolls have been found at Oxyrinchus showing the number as 6 1 6.

FATHER JOE:

Actually, the number is debated. Certain manuscripts read 616 (3rd century) in reference to the Book of Revelation. It is possible that this is original although most texts give 666. I believe the Latin Vulgate, which is the official Bible of the Catholic Church, gives 666. Some researchers think that the numerology differs because 666 is a code for the Emperor Nero while 616 points to Caligula. Both were certainly anti-Christs in their own right.

JORDYS:

I totally agree with what you guys are saying. This is man is insane, and he uses reverse psychology, and plays around with the Bible’s words to mess with people’s minds. Unfortunately, some people are actually fooled by his clear tricks. However, there must be some action taken soon. This issue will continue to increase, and people will continue following him, leading to the Apocalypse, thus, Armageddon. This man is insane, and it is almost as if he would do exactly anything and everything possible to get what he wants.

BILL:

I would give more credibility to someone who displayed a fraction of the humility set by the example of someone ….say ….like St. Francis. Maybe if we let God deal with this man… he will go away?

MOO:

“The Pope is Christ’s vicar, but unlike your Mister Miranda, he does not claim to be God.” The Catholic Church is claiming that the Pope is unmistaken though, isn’t it?

BRITTANY:

Let us remember the tragedy at Jones Town. 30 years later those images still haunt me. Those people then and these people now are victims. These people are vulnerable and brainwashed; it is only a matter of time before something really bad happens. It is already evident that these people will do anything for their “God” Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda. Let us not forget the horrendous power of an organized cult.

JOSE ARTURO:

Alena….la que escribió el 1er mensaje en este foro. Maldita loca…. Tu si que esta pérdida. Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda, es un loco con inteligencia que se esta aprovechando de la situación, ya que en la política no se puede por que es bastante cerrada, pero el tipo es un loco y se aprovecha de las mentes débiles como la de Alena. Que pendejada esta, un tipo que te dice a ti que no hay pecado, que te drogues y hagas orgías con tu tía y abuela. Que pendejada. Todavía hay Indios en America.

FATHER JOE:

Certainly she is deceived about Miranda. He is as you say, a smart fellow who is deliberately taking advantage of others, particularly the gullible. As to the sexual immorality, I do not know much about this element; what troubles me is that Catholics could be so easily led astray.

ALEX RIVERA:

The “Holy Spirit” which we all know is basically the presence of “God” himself which is everywhere at the same time 2 or 3 people congregate in his name to worship “Him” to better explain it; would have left the earth so would death, according to the bible people would suffer such agony and terror that they will seek death and not find it, if he were the “Jesus” or “Anti-Christ” he claims to be then according to “Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda” “God is a liar…My opinion is he has committed Blasphemy against the “Holy Spirit” in which according to the “Bible” is a sin without forgiveness. So with this being Blogged let’s let these things come to pass so that the word of “God” is fulfilled and keep this man and his followers in our prayers so that “God” may have mercy on their souls. May God bless us all, Amen!

FATHER JOE:

Father Joe: I will try to parse what you wrote. (1) The divine presence is indeed omnipresent. That is true, not simply about the Holy Spirit, but about the Triune God. (2) It is Jesus who tells us that he is present when we gather with others to pray. (3) This passage you write makes no sense: “…would have left the earth so would death, according to the bible people would suffer such agony and terror that they will seek death and not find it…” The clauses do not link up in a coherent manner. I have no idea what you are trying to say. (4) You are right that Miranda is not the Christ although he may be a minor antichrist. God is not a liar; about this your insight is also correct. Miranda’s claims are blasphemous and erroneous. (5) There has been much conjecture about the unforgivable sin. Many churchmen have regarded it as suicide. But if one condemns the works of the Holy Spirit as demonic it would logically be very difficult, if not impossible, to embrace the mercy from that same Spirit. (6) We can pray for the repentance and conversion to true faith of this man and his followers.

ALEX RIVERA:

Just wanted to add the fact that the “Anti-Christ” comes after the second coming of “Jesus” so he has the order in which they happen correctly but that’s all he has.

FATHER JOE:

Throughout history there have been many antichrists. It refers to any and all who reject and oppose Christ and his Church. The term also signifies a false Christ or counterfeit messiah. This is not to deny the possibility of a singular apocalyptic antichrist; however, many authorities suggest that this pointed to the Emperor Nero or possibly another tyrant of pagan Rome who persecuted the early Church.

ALEX RIVERA:

Pentecostal Christian church is how I congregate and I’ve seen the “Holy Spirit” in action so he must be fibbing, how do I know it’s the “Holy Spirit” and not some person looking silly jumping up & down screaming gibberish? Come to a Spanish speaking Pentecostal Christian Church and find out for yourself.

FATHER JOE:

While I have known Pentecostals in love with the Lord, it is traditionally regarded as a cult itself. As a Catholic priest I could never encourage others to join its ranks, but at least they do not worship a contemporary man as Jesus Christ. However, there is the Catholic Charismatic Renewal which expresses many of the lesser gifts without neglecting the greater gifts of the Spirit in our Christian faith and in the sacraments.

ALEX RIVERA:

No I’m not saying it’s the real religion or the best church or the only way to feel the “Holy Spirit” but it’s the only place I’ve experienced it many times so I can guarantee it. Definition for Church: The body of all Christians. May God bless us all, Amen!

FATHER JOE:

God bless you!

MATTHEW RANGEL:

As many of you know Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda is not Christ. The time for the real one draws near. This will happen in our life time. The earth is getting ready for a new beginning. In the near future, horrible things are to come. Always remember who you serve and that there is a plan of action that must happen. So whatever happens— DO NOT lose your faith. Remember, if you lose someone close to you that individual will be in a better place, so don’t get mad at God. The path will soon be set for the second coming, so you all should be ready now. Go fourth and teach the Lord’s teachings to others so that they too will be saved. Be strong with the Lord and do what he asks. In the coming years great events will soon unfold. Always do what is right; that is if it will please God, do it, if it won’t, then don’t. Never lose hope for God will ALWAYS be there.

Filed under: Anti-Catholicism, Apologetics, Catholic, Discipleship, Evangelization, Exorcism, Faith, Incarnation, Jesus, Justification, Religion, Salvation, Sin, Uncategorized | 3 Comments »

Mainland Chinese Eating Babies!

Posted on July 2, 2013 by Father Joe

The headline I read back in 2007 asserted, “Hong Kong Reports Mainland Chinese Eating Infants.” Say what? Can this be real? It sounded like a sick joke or maybe a slur to belittle the Chinese. But it supposedly came from a reliable news source.

Below is a portion of an article posted online at EPOCH TIMES and taken from a Hong Kong weekly, THE NEXT MAGAZINE.

Can it be true? If you have a strong stomach you can follow the link. It is monstrous! Of course, there was scandal a number of years ago when certain shampoos were using aborted fetuses for the animal protein ingredient. Further, while used for research, catalogues with baby body parts circulate even in the United States, with hefty price-tags attached. I learned about these from friends who work at NIH.

China’s stringent, dare I say “mandatory” abortion measures and population control, once praised by Mrs. Clinton, may have precipitated such a callous view of the child as seen in the article:

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-3-29/53482.html

The Next Magazine, a weekly publication from Hong Kong, reported that infant corpses and fetuses have become the newest supplements for health and beauty in China. Not only is the placenta considered a beauty remedy, but also aborted fetuses are much sought after delicacies. In Guangdong, gourmet body parts are in high demand and can even be purchased through hospitals. The magazine’s investigations into this form of cannibalism took them to Liaoning province.

According to The Next Magazine, during a banquet hosted by a Taiwanese businessman, a servant Ms. Liu from Liaoning province on the mainland inadvertently revealed the habit of eating infants/fetuses in Liaoning province and her intention to return for the supplement due to health concerns. The Taiwanese women present were horrified.

No further comment, I have to go throw up.

DISCUSSION

PETER: How, precisely, does one spring that on one’s dinner guests? “This looks interesting – what is it?” “Roast baby with a raspberry coulis.” *Barf* the depth of depravity is positively unfathomable. And there are those who want to follow down this road… *boggle.*

AMBER: Absolutely horrifying! What in the world is wrong with people? How could it have gotten this bad? This completely sickens me…

JAMES: This is one of the worst things of which I have ever heard! God help us! It makes me think that the wrath of God cannot be far away. Of course, given the apathy and ignorance today, it makes me think that this ignorance of God IS part of the wrath of God. Oh God, please give these miserable people the grace to find you!

KAMASULLAH: I wouldn’t be surprised if they are eating babies in China!! Because, as I have seen their food, I think they will eat anything on the earth… insects, cats, dogs, monkeys, snakes, rats, and finally dead human babies.. OMG, who knows what else they eat and we don’t know!

ASDF: Ha-ha, at least it’s organic. The cr-p we eat causes cancer.

SIEWEN: OMG! Are you serious?! I’d rather get cancer then eat that. It’s sick and disgusting. It is bad enough to be a cannibal, but to go so far as to eat A BABY?! It is sickening, completely uncalled for and ridiculous. However, I think that this evolved from stem cell research and abortion, so we are all kind of guilty. Nasty people in the world!

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/cannibal/fetus.asp

POOPER: Calm down, everyone. It’s a hoax.

FATHER JOE: Jonathan Swift gave us his Modest Proposal for the Irish. Such things are not new but they make us pause to think about the real nightmares around us. Both Scotland Yard and the FBI purportedly looked into this allegation. Zhu Yu did an exhibit called, “Eating People,” at the Shanghai Arts Festival in 2000. Here is the frightful photo faked with a duck carcass and a baby doll head. Unfortunately stories about forced abortions and even that of a new-born drowned among the rice paddies are true. Who needs hoaxes while we already have real horror stories?

Filed under: Morality, News, Parody, Pro-Life, Sin, Social Justice, Uncategorized | Leave a comment »

The Marriage Crisis: A Few Personal Suggestions

Posted on July 1, 2013 by Father Joe

How might we handle the marriage crisis in the Church? Here are a few of my suggestions:

1. There should be a Pre-Cana preparation program that parallels RCIA instructions. Couples can meet weekly in their parishes with a team that will help them to appreciate the sacrament, the moral obligations, and how this union fits into their Christian discipleship (openness to human life, avoidance of pornography, etc.).

2. Couples without children that are cohabitating should be urged to separate during the time of preparation prior to the wedding. If there are children or this is just not practical, then they should be urged to live as brother and sister until the marriage.

3. Couples that continue to cohabitate and/or have attempted marriage before a civil magistrate or non-Catholic minister still have the natural right to marriage; however, the scandal they have caused should not be amplified by a full-blown church-wedding. Convalidations or ceremonies for such couples might be very small, without rehearsal, with no less than two witnesses and no more than perhaps a dozen people. There should be no flowers, no music, no fancy dresses and no reception on parish property. There would be the reading of Scripture, a brief homily, the exchange of vows, the bidding prayers and the closing blessings. The service should take no more than 30 minutes.

4. The nuptial Mass is properly reserved to Catholic couples who are faithful to each other and to the Church, honestly struggling to be chaste and participating in the pre-marital preparation. A wedding without the Mass can be celebrated for a faithful Catholic marrying a non-Catholic who respects the spouse’s faith and has agreed to have the children raised as Catholics. These couples would also be eligible for parish receptions.

5. The dress for the bridal party and the bride should be feminine and beautiful, but not skimpy and erotic. Bosoms should have ample coverage and legs should not be excessively exposed.

6. Music for the liturgical celebration must be exclusively religious. Popular and/or romantic songs should be saved for the reception. There should be an air of gravity, not flippancy at the wedding. Exaggerated walking, dancing down the aisle and props like fake noses or full costumes are best avoided.

7. Receptions for Catholic weddings should include nothing that is profane in language, music, dance or actions. The practice of extracting the bride’s garter should be forbidden as lewd and undermining to the woman’s dignity. Her body belongs to her husband and is not the object for leering and jokes from male guests.

8. It should be understood that bachelor parties and parties for the bride with the girls must be sober and pure. Strippers and pornographic videos are no way for couples to spiritually prepare for marriage. Like the knights of old, the night before their great journey and life together should be spent in prayer and reflection.

I know, a few of you are shaking your heads, and mumbling, “That Father Jenkins is crazy!”

Filed under: Catholic, Discipleship, Marriage, Modesty, Morality, Religion, Sacraments, Sexuality, Sin | 2 Comments »