A Priest Trying to Understand the Pope

11 Responses

Chris, on July 2, 2016 at 9:59 am said:

Please know Father, that you, Msgr. Pope, and all religious are quietly supported in prayer by those that you will never meet. Thank you for your commitment to truth in these confusing times.
Francis Philip, on July 2, 2016 at 9:36 am said:

Thank you for your priestly vocation and zeal for souls.
Father Joe, on July 2, 2016 at 2:31 am said:

FRANCIS PHILIP: I think that you may be overreacting and taking my intentions the wrong way, not fully reading and understanding all that I write before responding.

FATHER JOE: You think so?

This is what Francis Philip writes:

You are not a friend of Pope Francis?

…many priests and theologians do not really trust the infallibility of the Pope.

They are quick to launch attacks, out of their own pride…

They show the darkness of their own “eye,” reliant upon the letter of the law, and afraid of the light….

Had you been Moses on that terrible day when he and God found the Jews worshipping the golden calf, would you have encouraged God to smite them?

You lack trust, and you lack faith, and you lack understanding.

Even though some persons are ordained to be priests, they turn and become sexual predators or have private wives or they steal money from the Church. Why didn’t the Sacrament save them from this?

You see them as fornicators; God may see them as less sinful than some priests who, in their hearts, are very proud.

FATHER JOE: No I think I understand well enough.
Father Joe, on July 1, 2016 at 1:53 pm said:

Many hold in high regard the messages purportedly from Our Lady of Akita. While only private revelation, this one is particularly unsettling: “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres…churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.” It is a nightmare scenario for sure, not all that different from other apparitions and warnings. Pray for the Pope, cardinals, bishops, priests and deacons. Pray also for good and holy laity. Remain loyal to the Church… go to Confession and to Mass… and yes, remember to say Our Lady’s Rosary.
Ruth, on June 30, 2016 at 4:21 pm said:

My prayers are with all the priests in difficult times like these.
Francis Philip, on June 30, 2016 at 10:51 am said:

One thing that I see from this situation: many priests and theologians do not really trust the infallibility of the Pope. As such, they do not trust the Holy Spirit, God Who guides the Pope. They are quick to launch attacks, out of their own pride, against the Pope who speaks for God. They would rather attack than listen in order to understand. They show the darkness of their own “eye,” reliant upon the letter of the law, and afraid of the light and inspiration which comes through faith in Who God really Is and Does. He comes to heal the sick – those who need a Doctor. But some priests only want to treat those who don’t need a doctor and they balk when their houses are stained with the spiritual sores of the wounded.

FATHER JOE:

Sorry, but I do not think you really understand papal infallibility. It has never meant that the Pope is always right. First, there are levels of assent. The recent apostolic exhortation even explicitly says that it should not be received as magisterial. Thus, it claims no infallible protection. We see such in certain discussions between Peter and Paul at the Council of Jerusalem. Peter changes his mind and accepts Paul’s argument. The weight is given to the final decision, not to the process that gets one there. Addresses and quick interviews are also outside of this protection by the Holy Spirit. The Pope has requested discussion about some of the matters he brings up. It is true that earlier popes were more careful about statements. Just look at how the Vatican has constantly clarified and revised, with his approval, so much that Pope Francis has said. When he leaves the script, like all human beings, he can misspeak. The difficulty with lower levels of authority is that there is still an expectation for religious respect that is required (particularly on new questions). The second element or level here is that the Pope can only define or interpret revelation; he cannot make up or contradict (in a fundamental way) either Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture. Our doctrines of faith and morals are set. New questions are judged from these basic principles. The Pope is the servant of the Word, not its master. Third, you are not alone in failing to appreciate the dynamics of papal infallibility. It is this ignorance that adds to the worry from certain churchmen. You are also wrong to add your voice to those who disparage the priesthood.

Papal infallibly is technically defined as follows: When the Pope (1) intends to teach (2) by virtue of his supreme authority (3) on a matter of faith and morals (4) to the whole Church, he is preserved by the Holy Spirit from error. His teaching act is therefore called “infallible.” Such teachings are regarded as “irreformable.” According to Pope Benedict XVI, Pope John Paul II followed this formula with the prohibition of women priests. There are two Marian dogmas defined by previous popes: the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception.
Francis Philip, on June 30, 2016 at 10:39 am said:

What would you say to St. Augustine of Hippo? Is he not notorious for having cohabited? Did he not have children out of wedlock? Was he not on a journey toward God? Was it not another priest who inspired St. Augustine to come into the Church? Pray to be like THAT priest who inspires the sinner to repentance. Encourage and teach.

FATHER JOE: St. Ambrose baptized St. Augustine in 387 AD. The Church traditionally attributes this conversion not just to the arguments of St. Ambrose but to the prayers and tears offered to heaven by St. Augustine’s mother. Note that he had to give up his old life before becoming a Christian. That is wholly different from encouraging Catholics to remain in a state of sin through cohabitation, fornication and adultery. Good priests will admonish people to reform their lives. The difficulty in the great saint’s story is his abandonment of both his child and the mother. What became of them? Note that he never married her.
Francis Philip, on June 30, 2016 at 10:32 am said:

Had you been Moses on that terrible day when he and God found the Jews worshipping the golden calf, would you have encouraged God to smite them? Well, if that is the attitude, then we don’t need the Sacrament of Confession because sin requires immediate death given that we all have the innate ability not to sin – not ever. Of course, that is sarcasm, but I hope that you understand that even many who appear to be obedient – going to Mass weekly for example – are not free of sin, needing the Sacrament to cleanse and heal them/us often because we are all trying to grow in holiness. But if we are not allowed to grow – if we are commanded to be perfect immediately and without training and time to build the good habits, how will we get there?

FATHER JOE:

Are you well? Why would you assume that I would want to smite anyone? The issues I discussed were these: (1) that there needs to be recognition of the important and good work of priests, not wholesale condemnation; and (2) that priests should do all they can to bring genuine healing and forgiveness to those in serious sin. The parameters of sin, judgment and salvation are not set by me or the Pope. Our mission, as I said, is to save souls. Fornication and adultery may contain within themselves elements of tenderness and devotion; however, they remain mortal sins. If we die in serious sin then we would suffer the loss of heaven and the pains of hell. Time is short. If we take away the biblical urgency of repentance and belief then we preach a false Gospel. Priests will be held accountable to God. Why would you fault me and other priests from doing what we were ordained to do? Are you not Catholic? Do you not understand issues like sin, grace, virtue and vice? Do you under-appreciate the power of the sacraments instituted by Christ? As with the Israelites, we leave judgment to God. As you may recall God was ready to destroy them but Moses interceded. That is what priests regularly do— even when critics like you condemn them. Beware of calumny when you paint all priests with the same brush stroke. We are all sinners, priests as well, but we should struggle to avoid mortal sin. Venial sins are small matters that do not break off our relationship with God. Mortal sin kills the soul. How can you properly accompany someone if he or she is spiritually dead? The priest should desperately want to restore them to the good graces of God. “He was dead but has come to life again!)

The Holy Father does not teach what you seem to be urging. However, it realizes the fear that many of us have that the Pope speaks in a manner easily misunderstood by others.

You contradict yourself in this post. You lack trust, and you lack faith, and you lack understanding. Even though some persons are ordained to be priests, they turn and become sexual predators or have private wives or they steal money from the Church. Why didn’t the Sacrament save them from this? Even though men and women get married, they fight, commit adultery, are unfaithful in other ways, perhaps even worse than some who cohabit ate before they get married. At least the ones cohabitation are entering in to marriage using prudence in light of the generations of failed marriages which came before them. You see them as fornicators; God may see them as less sinful than some priests who, in their hearts, are very proud. Pope Francis asks for compassion and mercy. You complain.

FATHER JOE:

There is no contradiction here from me or Msgr. Pope. I have taught the faith as a priest for over thirty years and many years before that as a layman. But note what you do here… instead of arguing in a coherent manner, you attempt to discredit me and other priests by association with “sexual predators” or secret womanizers or thieves Carefull, that will get you banned from this site.

I did not attack the Pope. I would never attack the Pope. I questioned the manner he sometimes says things, how they hurt good priests and make traditional moral exhortation difficult. Priests seek to put on the heart and mind of Christ when we hear Confessions. I suspect you do not believe this. When was the last time you went to Confession? Or are you too proud to admit your guilt and need for mercy. Every good priest counts himself the first of sinners. We do not want to hurt anyone. But to remain silent and not to help people face the truth would be a false compassion and not real love at all. Every priest at the altar is an “alterchristus” or another Christ. Christ has configured the priest to himself. This is doctrine 101. But you show no respect for this basic mystery of faith. The priest has the power to forgive sins. Do you believe this? Your words do not show it. Attack the priesthood, and as I said, you attack the priestly heart of the Church.

Finally, consider the MILLIONS of children in the world today who have witnessed their parents’ failed marriages, but love and have learned to understand them nonetheless. Instead of placing blame, some compassion and understanding on the part of the priest would be better. They are all deeply wounded. Do you send the wounded into the street and say, “Get help on your own until you learn how to be well again. When you are well, we will admit you to the hospital.” ? No. You reach out and accompany them in order to help them heal and engraftment them back into the Church as persons more healthy than they were before.

FATHER JOE:

You would fault the priests for an eroticized society where sexual sin is rampant? Promises were meant to be kept and it was Jesus who opposed divorce and spoke about it as leading to adultery. Your fight is with the Lord, not me. I try my best to heal families. I assist with annulments in the face of irregular unions. I urge many people to live chaste lives so as to avoid sin and the forfeiture of the sacraments. What becomes of absolution given to a person who remains in a sinful relationship? He or she falls immediately back into sin. What happens when a person in mortal sin receives Holy Communion? The saints tell us that instead of saving grace, he or she receives condemnation for sacrilege.

1 Corinthians 11:27-32

“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by [the] Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.”
Francis Philip, on June 30, 2016 at 10:11 am said:

You are not a friend of Pope Francis?

FATHER JOE: Pope Francis is the Vicar of Christ. He is the visible head of the Church. Jesus is the invisible head of the Church. I accept his authority and all that the Catholic Church teaches… but do you? The argument is made that the Pope seeks a new praxis, not a change in doctrine (which is impossible). Do you understand this? I suspect not given your query.
John, on June 29, 2016 at 6:54 am said:

There is more grace in a faithful cohabitation than an unfaithfully
carried through church wedding. Thank you Father Joe for your
blog.That was my paraphrase of the pope’s words.
The Smiling Pilgrim, on June 29, 2016 at 5:14 am said:

Although I see Pope Francis’s message differently and am one of the fans of this Bishop I will say I agree with you about Priests being a big part of the heart of the Church!

I wrote a piece a bit back about the Priesthood in the church. I have been very blessed to know some absolutely wonderful priests from various orders and I continue to think that we are blessed with men of great character and a true calling to give and grow those who are in their flock 🙂