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Dave Protestant Attacks Mary & Catholic Piety

Dave Protestant (also posting under the name David J. Hageman) posted his slurs as a comment on my blog.  Here is his post and my response.  I deleted links to his Facebook and blog although they have him hailing from Australia.

DAVE:

What is it with Catholics and Mary? Do any of you ever bother to read the Bible?

FATHER JOE:

I deleted the link to your Facebook page on account of vulgarity and the “F” word. How can you do this and regard yourself still able to speak for Jesus? You know nothing and would invite others to share your prejudice and ignorance.

“Hail full of grace” (Luke 1:28).

“Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word” (Luke 1:38).

“Blessed art thou amongst women” (Luke 1:42).

“All generations shall call me blessed” (Luke 1:48).

“Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed” (Luke 2:34-35).

DAVE:

NEWS FLASH! Mary is dead— dead as a doornail. She gave up the ghost and is sleeping until judgment day.

FATHER JOE:

Our Lord tells us that ours is the God of the living, not the dead. The believers in soul sleep deny both the immortal soul and the existence of hell. The message of the resurrection and the communion of the saints is that we can have a share in Christ’s life. The grave will not consume us. Heaven is real and we will know both eternal life and reunion with those who have gone before us. Love is not conquered by the grave. Our blessed dead are alive in Christ, still loving and praying for us. Notice that our Lord makes references to ghosts and appears with Elijah and Moses in the Transfiguration. Remember also the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in the afterlife. Mary is assumed body and soul into heaven as a sign for us and the Church.

DAVE:

Dianna Luciferus, on the other hand, might answer those prayers.

FATHER JOE:

Condemning the things of God as demonic is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Mary is a blessed creature, not a goddess and not the devil. Mary, as the queen of the saints, intercedes for us. Jesus gave us Mary from the Cross to our emissary, John. “Behold your mother!” The Mother of the Redeemer would become the Mother of All the Redeemed.

DAVE:

Geez, if the invention of moveable type didn’t wake you up to the fact you’re following the very antichrist, the internet leaves you with no excuse whatsoever.

FATHER JOE:

The multiplication of words is no assurance on truth. Bigotry and ignorance can be expressed in many or a few words. You prove this on your website by slurring African-Americans.

DAVE:

Grow up peasants. Mary worship! Oh em gee! So medieval. Whatever next? A Negro for president? What’s the world coming to?


FATHER JOE:

You are a hateful racist. You give a bad name to fundamentalists and SDA believers.

8 Responses

  1. oh i found this by googling “arise mighty protestant frm your slumber”. I had no idea this was published. Censored or not. I rarely swear these days but I dont know that swearing is such a big deal.

    Grace is magic actually. Its granted by Jesus Himself . Its a supernatural gift. Its not man’s to give.
    I would suggest to the catholic peasants that theyre missing the point of Christianity by trusting their salvation to priests.
    We have a priest in heaven , who will minister to each and every one of us as needed.
    His promises arent legal requirements to be fulfilled by priests in church but are to guide us into the mystery of the Way

    FATHER JOE:

    Grace is not magic. It is God’s favor, indeed it is a share in the divine life. Christianity is the end of magic. Magic refers to superstition and false religion (not the tricks variety that entertains at parties). Our Lord gives grace as a gift, but he also attaches it to faith and the sacraments. Priests do not save souls by any independent power, but by that of Christ. Priests are empowered as instruments of the Lord. They participate in his priesthood. Everything we know in the mortal world is mediated. This is true in Protestantism as well. The Good News is proclaimed. The Bible is translated and passed on. The Christian life is witnessed. All this is a form of mediation. No one comes to the Lord alone.

    Disposition is important, too.

    Christ has offered the saving work. We are redeemed. But by faith will be open ourselves to his mercy.

    Our Lord gives a gift but will we open ourselves to receive it? The gift is free. And yet, our Lord loves us. He will not force himself upon us. He knocks upon the door of the human heart. Will we open the door to him?

  2. Hi Father Joe,

    This is my second attempt to post. I think WordPress probably didn’t like my link to my other blog and hurled my first attempt into cyberspace. Here we go again:

    Hi Father,

    Its no use throwing our pearls to swine.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    But for the benefit of your other readers, be they Catholic or respectable and reasonable Bible believing folk, I’d like to post my favorite apologetic for prayer to Mary. Its a bit long and its got a link to my other blog, but I hope it will be acceptable:

    Praise Mary

    Scripture says that God’s will should be done on earth as it is in heaven.
    And God wills that the Angels praise Mary:

    Luke 1:26-28
    King James Version (KJV)
    26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

    Let’s break this down:
    ANGEL GABRIEL
    1. an angel is a messenger of God. That is what the word, angel, means.
    2. this angel, Gabriel, is one of the four angels that stands before the throne of God.

    WAS SENT FROM GOD
    1. God sent this angel to Mary.
    2. Since this angel is a messenger of God’s, God sent Him to deliver a message.
    3. Therefore, the angel was not speaking on his own, but was communicating God’s message to Mary.
    4. If we skip down to verse 28, we see that this was a message of praise (i.e. blessed art thou).
    5. Therefore God praised Mary through His Angel.
    That is great praise indeed. Do you know of any man whose praise is worth more than God’s? In other words, what do you value more highly, the praise of man or the praise of God?
    But, there’s more. God sent the Angel to do His Will. What is His Will. Obviously, God sent the Angel to deliver a message of praise. Therefore it is God’s will that the Angels praise Mary.
    And there’s yet more. Because the Holy Spirit inspired a holy woman to exclaim, “”Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! ”

    still in:
    Luke 1:41-45
    King James Version (KJV)
    41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
    Should we break this down?

    1. The Holy Spirit is God the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.
    2. Therefore, God inspired Elisabeth to praise Mary.
    3. This praise is inscribed in the Word of God for all generations.
    4. Since Elisabeth is a member of the human race, then it is safe to conclude that God wills that men praise Mary.
    5. And we find, again, that God praised Mary through His Saint. Saint Elisabeth praised Mary when she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to do so. That means that it is the Holy Spirit’s praise which she passed on. That is why Scripture is called the Word of God. Because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    Need we say more? Let’s do it anyway.

    Mother of God
    Luke 1:43-45
    New International Version (NIV)
    43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”
    Lets break this down:

    1. The word “Lord” is here mentioned two times.
    2. In the second instance, it is an obvious reference to God. “Blessed is she who believes that the LORD would fulfill His promises.” That is an obvious reference to God.
    3. Therefore, then, what could she possibly have meant when she said, “mother of my LORD”?
    4. Since she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to utter these words, she must have meant what is most obvious. Is Jesus, God? Yes. Therefore, the words she uttered could also be translated, “mother of my GOD”.
    5. So, God explicitly teaches us, in His Word, that Mary is the Mother of God.

    Is there any higher praise than that?

    And finally, Scripture says:

    Matthew 6:10King James Version (KJV)
    10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
    Thus, God wills that mankind PRAISE Mary. This is confirmed by Mary herself when she says,
    “From now on all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48).”

    So, when do you praise Mary?

    May God bless you.

  3. Dear David or whoever you are..
    Finally Jesus sees only the heart of every person, not the religion, because He came to save sinners, the Jews as well as Gentiles. If you think that you are going to go straight to Heaven because of your strong belief in Jesus, so be it! But I’m afraid that at the same time you may have to give an account of your foul language, that too against a priest.
    I’m sure that being a Protestant you are well versed with the Scripture which says- “I tell you that on Judgement day, everyone will have to give an account of every useless word he has spoken”. PEACE!!

  4. Great answers Father, logical and biblical, keep it up. You have more patience than most people I know – seeing this guy’s abuse and disrespect is an embarrassment, being from Sydney, Australia. If you’re ever in Sydney it’d be great to introduce you to the Catholic crowd down here

    FATHER JOE: Sounds great! Although my geography may be a bit off, I think he actually hails from somewhere in Victoria. Peace!

  5. David continues to send comments and they will not be posted. He makes no coherent argument. He just uses racist remarks and goes so far as to use the “f” word. He made no effort at a biblical response. This was a bit unexpected.

  6. i read the bible. it didnt say i had to love c- -ns.It said god made the nations and tongues to keep us seperate.Not to get jiggy wid each other

    Joe are the Knights of Columbus a group of fairy princess’? They seem to be

    What about the Knights of St John? Wouldn’t they let you join?

    Does one need to have penetrative sex with a child to ascend to the goddess? Does one need to be sodomised too? is Plato not the false prophet of revelations? Why follow him? Do you lose sleep at night imagining the tortures you will endure in the next life? Or do you believe perhaps this is the next life and we are all of us the wicked? What on earth could motivate a rational man to follow the Deceiver? I’m sincerely curious. Even if I was damned I would follow Jesus, because he is Just and the Deceiver is not. The reward is neither here nor there.

    I decided to have some fun with you for censoring me Joe.

    The reason I do not like priests is partly because they are knowingly misleading potential protestants to serve the antichrist Roman church, they are murdering millions through knights of st john medicine, have hurt me and mine personally. And are conquering my country. Now of course biblically it is the 2 horns of the lamb of the image of Rome that hand us back to the pope. But as afar as I can tell Knights of St john control England / created USA. So its one and the same thing. I had relegated you to spam but you keep popping up in my emails anyway. Then I read your latest blasphemy and cannot help responding to it.

    banned2

    FATHER JOE: You are hereby banned. David, I had always thought well of our neighbors in Australia (a country I would love to visit). But you disgrace yourself. You are a poor morally sick man. Racism is a terrible sin. If I ever get to Australia, you are one person I will give a wide berth. Australia may have a very low black population; but that is no excuse for your gross insensitivity and derogative language. Faithful Protestants and Catholics would agree with me… Jesus would not be pleased by your negative attitude.

  7. forgive me for i have told the freaking truth .The sword of Just Defence. Arise mighty protestant from your slumber!

    wouldn’t you just love to put me on the rack for heresy

    i dont like being censored joe. That very act alone curdles my blood and i lose my sense of humour

    and i dont need to be in the next world to see the nature of your sins in your sluglike lips

    and JOe you should be careful condemning protestants of the unforgiveable sin.What hsppens if we’re silly enough to believe you? We have nothing to lose.Then its no holds barred, and we always win, hence the reason for your sneaky takeovers, you cannot win against the mighty protestant in open battle. Look at Cromwell, the Spanish Armarda etc etc etc

    Roman priests are just demon portals peasants- wake up

    i am hateful and i am racist Joe, and yet i am representing the voice of the true christ. Jesus, no other mediator,Priest,saint or mary but Jesus. How very dare you? knoiw ye not I shall judge you on that day son? Do not [expletive deleted] with your betters

    FATHER JOE: Pride in one’s faith is one thing. Belittling and mocking others is something else. You make no argument, just nasty allegations.

    Joe I has a dream a couple months ago after some confusion about the various doctrines in Protestantism.That confusion being what exactly is the Way? And I received answer that is half the answer. I know not what the other half is. And I think you might share it with the Catholic peasants so that they may make a choice. This is Grace- A shield to sin .God stands over you and protects you from temptation so that you do not sin. You are occasionally aware of the encroachment of sin, as god releases his shield a little, so that you might look to him for protection. You resist sin not by willpower but through the 3rd party of faith. For example if my sin was a desire for chocolates. I could not resist that sin by refusing to eat chocolates. Grace would remove my sweet tooth by having faith that god will do as he promises to do. Occasionally I would feel the encroachment of the desire for chocolate but this is only a means to have me to look to god with complete faith he will make the temptation disappear. Ive practised this and not only does it work but on occasion I feel the presence of the Almighty as his shield is applied and it is quietly amazing. Its like having the Queen of England walk in the kitchen door and bend down and polish my shoes. I suggest you share this dream with the peasants you control so that they may choose between a life in sin as forgiven by priests every Sunday, or a life in Grace without sin, and an awareness with the Almighty in their every day lives. And embrace the wonder of Jesus Christ alive this very day through Protestantism.

    FATHER JOE:

    The Bible already tells us what we need to know about the Way. We read in John 14:6: “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” This is not precisely the same thing as grace unless you understand grace as the very life and presence of Christ. Jesus is the bridge or pontifex that makes possible our access to the Father and entry into the kingdom. At Christmas we remembered that in Jesus God became a man so that men and women by grace might be divinized— literally to have a share in the divine life. God comes down to earth so that men and women might be assumed into heaven.

    The very person of Jesus is the WAY. His is the saving name. There is no other WAY to the Father but through him. Of course, Jesus is Jesus in the various modes wherein he makes himself present. These flow from the very mystery of the incarnation. He is present and beckoning to us in THE WORD PROCLAIMED. He is present and nourishing us in the sacraments, especially THE BREAD OF LIFE and THE CHALICE OF SALVATION (Eucharist). Jesus is present and active in us through THE MYSTICAL BODY OF CHRIST or THE CHURCH. Catholicism gives a strong identification with Christ and the Church, regarding the latter as THE WAY only in so far that it is the realization of our unity with our saving Lord.

    Speaking further about grace, we would make a distinction between sanctifying and actual grace. Sanctifying grace is literally saving grace. Thus the person who accepts Christ in faith and is initiated into the Church through baptism receives saving grace. Original sin and all personal sins are forgiven. We anoint the person and ask that God might shield him or her from the devil and the blight of sin. In the case of children we rely upon the faith of parents but with the expectation that the child will be raised in the faith and will receive the other sacraments: Penance, Eucharist and Confirmation. All sacraments give grace but baptism is seen as the first and essential one. While such things are a means to acquire grace, the emphasis is upon grace. We cannot be saved or be truly good without grace. Grace is a gift from God. It cannot be merited (as such) and no one deserves grace. Christians are to believe and live in such a way that they are properly disposed for the gift of grace. It is in these terms that we can put on the armor of God. Where we are weak, God is strong.

    I stray somewhat from the topic. The other form of grace is called actual grace. Actual graces are “helping” graces for us to live out our state-of-life and daily discipleship. We beseech God for the grace to be chaste or patient or studious or holy or whatever.

    Catholics in the pews have their own minds. I offer what the Church teaches and personal insights, but they are not “peasants” and I am not spoon-feeding their religion or relationship with God. Each of us is called to reflect upon the great mystery and make a conscious response to the overture of God. He wants us to be his loving friends and family, not his robot slaves.

    Grace and faith are not magic. Availing ourselves of Christ’s saving grace does not free us from concupiscence or human weakness. You are wrong to think otherwise. God never directly intends for us to sin and he tells us in the Lord’s Prayer to ask that we might not be led into temptation. You forget a basic truth: sin and death are conquered by Christ but they are not undone. This remains for the consummation of all things and the second coming. While a few people reach a level of sanctity where sin is behind them; most struggle as sinners their whole lives long. Even you struggle with a certain hubris about which you seem unaware. We must be ever on guard against the devilish deception that we have made it and are saints to be emulated by others. Religious people are particularly vulnerable to this sin of the Pharisees. Every day I confess my sins before our saving God; I ask his mercy and pledge myself again to his sacred service.

    As for Protestantism, and I am not sure about your version (there are so many), I can well understand how the believer would be proud about his faith inheritance. Much that was taken from Catholicism was maintained. Many great minds have arisen after the break to reflect wisely upon God and his dispensation to us in Christ. We applaud genuine faith in the Lord and the Trinity. We acknowledge the efforts to live in obedience to God’s commands. We recognize a common love we have for Jesus.

  8. Wow! Horrible language and tone from a supposed Christian.

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