Recently I entered into a heated discussion with Dennis on an assortment of topics. He is very negative to the Catholic faith. PLEASE NOTE that it is an apologetical dialogue that might make some readers uncomfortable.
DENNIS:
Purgatory is a myth. Peter was Jewish so how could he be the first pope? I am no longer going to the catholic church because it is all symbolism over substance. It will be a pope (HOLY FATHER, WHAT A JOKE!) who will be the antichrist or at least be very supportive. I joined the catholic church before getting married 29 years ago and I told my wife (who is catholic) that many things the church did were wrong. After many years she agrees and my daughter has taken religious courses that prove the evils that exist.
FATHER JOE:
In the course of God’s progressive revelation to his people, the Jews had come to believe in both an afterlife and that atonement could be made for the dead. Jesus speaks about the afterlife drawing from the analogy of a debtor’s prison where none could be released until the last penny was paid. While the passion and death of Christ makes possible our redemption, he desires that we have both a saving personal faith in him and a corporate faith as members of his new People of God, the Church. Purgation is a sign of God’s gracious mercy. We must be transformed by grace and made perfect for heaven. If we belong to God, then he will finish what is started in this world. The saints of purgatory are all destined for heaven. As they approach the fire of God’s love, that eternal flame burns away the last vestiges of sin and vice. Temporal punishment is appeased and we are made truly holy. Such is no more a myth than our abiding faith that our Lord has gone ahead of us and that he prepares a place in heaven for his children.
The first called by Jesus were the Hebrew people. Salvation comes from the Jews. The apostles were all Jewish and yet at the Last Supper our Lord instituted both the priesthood and the Eucharist. Just as there are Semitic Catholics today, Peter was both Jewish and visible head of Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church. The Jews became the first Catholics.
You probably never really understood your Catholic faith to really know what you were rejecting. Did you ever sit down with a priest and ask your questions? Did you take advantage of adult faith formation in your parish? The odds are that you did not. There is no conflict between sacred signs and a faith of real substance. The problem is that you may never have known where to look for that substance or the meat of faith.
The Pope or Holy Father has even written a personal reflection on the life of Christ, now in two volumes. He preaches and witnesses to our Lord. Be careful of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. If God does protect Pope Benedict XVI and the faith and morals he teaches, then you slander not men but God. Only ignorant men filled with hatred would call the Pope by the demonic name of “antichrist.” Be careful that the joke is not on you.
You did not have to join the Catholic Church to get married in the Church. The fact that you entered a Church in which you placed no faith is tragic. It says nothing against the Church but volumes about your own lack of integrity and discretion. Why would you lie and say you believed when you did not? You should have shared your reservations then and withheld your prejudiced venom now.
I suspect that you undermined your wife’s weak faith and now delight that your child has also been stolen from the Church. Am I supposed to take these remarks seriously? I challenge you to bring your family to a strong parish-run Catholic instruction program. Bring your questions to the priest. You assume many things and there are plenty of misguided ministers ready to steer you away from Catholicism… not with a positive message of their own, but with a negative message against the Roman Catholic Church. They build themselves up by tearing others down. My Church preaches love, not hate.
DENNIS:
You tell me I assume many things. What about you? You assume I undermined my wife’s faith. You assume that her faith is weak when she has more faith than anyone. You assume that I am delighted that my daughter has been stolen from the church. WRONG! …AND BESIDES SHE IS HERE TO FOLLOW CHRIST not the church. I will never believe in purgatory no matter how persuasive your arguments. If Peter was pope, which I do not believe, then his successors should have been married like him. Perhaps then all this sick disgusting behavior would never have occurred? I will say no more, but I never personally attacked you like you have me. Some of your responses to others seem almost hateful. Trust me; I have done plenty of researching to draw the conclusions that I have. Stop thinking you are the only one with truths. Thanks for your time.
FATHER JOE:
Your assumptions about Catholicism are not coherently argued. You are working from a prejudiced view of the faith, not as one who is truly informed.
As for myself, mine is a faith seeking understanding. Catholics do not accept a blind faith that is at war with reason. We seek to know the truth from all the pertinent sources: the authority of the Church, the Sacred Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, philosophical and theological inquiry, dialoguing with other disciplines of learning, etc.
If your wife abandoned her religion in light of your postured conversion, it is only reasonable to assume that you undermined her Catholic faith. Indeed, you take delight that you have had a part in your family’s defection. I am sorry if you think I am rude but I find what you did to be reprehensible and dishonest.
Catholics regard our relationship with Jesus Christ to be intimately bound to our union with the Church. Our Lord makes himself and his saving activity present through the sacraments of the Church. Defection from the faith means a certain level of estrangement from our Lord, although as in your wife’s case, it might not be absolute. Only God is the ultimate judge as to whether such actions will cost people their salvation.
Peter was the first Pope, although the title was only used later. Being married or not married is beside the point. You would condemn celibate priests as well as chaste single people. Not everyone gets married. Some choose not to do so, like Catholic clergy, and others never meet the person with whom they want to settle down. Our Lord Jesus never married. The beloved apostle John never married. St. Paul never married. The Pope’s line of apostolic succession runs from both St. Peter and St. Paul, although the universal primacy passes down from St. Peter. You equate not being married with perversion and the child predator. You are a very sick and bigoted man. Why are you so angry? Why would you condemn the virginity of the Pope and so many priests? Yes, there have been a few criminals, but there are many of these among married men, too— even Protestant ministers.
I have not sought to be hateful, only truthful. Your allegations are in themselves of the most vulgar sort. It is hard to make proper responses to such bigoted allegations and ignorance. I suppose you would judge any response, as hateful. Part of the problem may be that you have neither the intellectual nor the spiritual tools to discuss such matters calmly and reasonably. That is one of the reasons why I suggested that you contact your local priest and maybe enter the continuing religious formation program. You should at least understand what you are rejecting.
Research has to go further than Chick comics and the ravings of anti-Catholic apologists who hate the Church. If you have nothing to fear, then go to the source… and speak and act with humility.
DENNIS:
I would love to talk to you personally and see if you would call me such things to my face. God have mercy on you for being so judgmental and hateful.
FATHER JOE:
You are upset with me? Listen, you come to “my” blog and assert the following:
- You bluntly stated that Purgatory is a myth.
- You illogically argued that Peter was Jewish and thus could not be Pope.
- You ridiculed the Catholic Church as placing symbolism over substance.
- You mocked the Pope, saying his title “HOLY Father” is a joke.
- You fall for the fundamentalist lie that the Pope is the antichrist.
- You joined the Catholic Church to marry your wife but never believed in what it taught (where is integrity?).
- You taught your wife and daughter that the Church was evil and so they defected with you.
- You will never believe in Purgatory no matter what sensible arguments I and others might make.
Either on the Internet or at my door I would tell you the same. I am not being mean to you, only truthful. Sorry if the truth hurts.
DENNIS:
It is not the truth that hurts. What hurts are the many lies the catholic church has told. I am glad I found out in time. Find out about things that go on inside the vatican: statue of Buddha placed on an alter; giving those of the wiccan faith a room to worship; the upside down cross that is satanic. I only want to leave a church. I am not leaving CHRIST. It is only HIS grace that can save us. The church was not built on peter but Christ. “The Rock the builders rejected became the cornerstone.”
Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Amen I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Jesus did not say anything about purgatory. I asked a priest about this and basically he said he defied the odds. I only laughed at this.
Only Jesus is HOLY not the pope.
Praying with people who practice witchcraft, worship Buddha, making the Nazi sign with Hitler, kissing the Quran… are these not signs of antichrist?
I married my wife because of love. Since then we have learned that many things the church teaches are lies. Have you never believed something at one time and then found out it was not what you thought?
You state I taught my wife and daughter these things. My daughter learned many of these things at university here in Canada. We still believe STRONGLY in JESUS CHRIST.
My non-belief in purgatory has nothing to do with salvation. It is only by GOD’S GRACE that we are saved. Acceptance of CHRIST as your savior is the only way to eternal life.
The catholic church has collected plenty of money over the years for saying masses for “SOULS IN PURGATORY.” If there is no purgatory then this money will be a testimony against it at the time of judgment. Great pastors and preachers like BILLY GRAHAM, DAVID JEREMIAH, CHARLES STANLEY, I could name many more, (hardly a list of wackos), do not preach about or believe in purgatory.
So the truth does not hurt at all, it sets one free.
FATHER JOE:
Say what you like, you are still running away from the truth (about yourself). I am a Catholic priest, but while convinced of the Church’s claims, I have studied the writings of the Reformers directly and as objectively as possible. I disagree with many of the views of the Protestant churches, but I have never pretended to be a Protestant. I would also not want to build my Church up by tearing down the religious beliefs of others. Christians of various denominations can find points of concurrence and work together for a more loving and just society. Not all non-Catholics are anti-Catholics. But you would fit the profile of a bigot against the Catholic Church. You classify Church teachings as lies. You even gloat about your prejudice. And, like so many of your ilk, you get basic facts wrong.
Someone wrongly placed a small Buddha statue on an altar during the Assisi Ecumenical Conference (not Vatican) back in 1986. Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) was furious about the mistake.
I have no idea what the Wiccan reference is about. Such paganism is in direct conflict with Catholic teaching and worship. Indeed, several years ago there was an incident where Wiccans insisted on using a military chapel for their services. The U.S. Government cannot play favorites regarding the faith practices of uniformed men and women. The military code of conduct required that the Wiccans keep their clothes on. Afterwards, the Catholic priest and several Protestant ministers offered prayers and ritual to spiritually exorcise or cleanse the room and altar-table.
The so-called upside down cross is not satanic. It is the ancient symbol for the first Pope, Peter. Tradition has it that he was crucified upon an inverted cross. He requested it, not feeling worthy to die like his Lord.
I cannot know your conscience, and only God can judge you, but in my estimation, defection from the Church is a departure from Christ.
Christ is indeed the cornerstone of the Church, but Peter remains KEPHAS or ROCK. He says he will build his Church upon him and after his resurrection, he heals him with the threefold admonition to his question, “Do you love me?” Jesus says: FEED MY LAMBS; TAKE CARE OF MY SHEEP; and FEED MY SHEEP.
As for purgatory and the good thief, you are being silly. Temporal punishment can be remitted by earthly penance and endurance of suffering. Given that he had faith in our Lord and was repentant, dying on a cross next to Jesus must assuredly count for something. Our Lord promises a place with him in paradise. As for ourselves, even if we must pass through purgation, we are also promised a place in his mansion of joy.
All holiness belongs properly to God. But God can extend his presence and make us saints. We can be transformed by the mysterious holiness of God. We can apply the word HOLY to the Pope and to all who have a share in the eternal life of Christ.
You fault the Church for an errant ecumenism which the universal Church and Pope Benedict would not condone. Each can worship as his conscience dictates, but we would not blend the Christian dispensation into a mix with those outside the Judeo-Christian tradition. There can be separate acts of prayer, communal dialogue and debate, a cooperative exploration of the truth and a partnership in making a better world. But Catholics do not practice witchcraft, worship Buddha or any of the Hindu deities. National Socialism, along with Communism, was condemned by the popes, even prior to World War II. You hate the late Pope for kissing a Koran as a sign of human respect to the one billion plus Moslems in the world, well, then so be it. But you are chasing ghosts because everyone knows that the Pope places his faith in Jesus and not in Islam or Mohammad. Indeed, when Pope Benedict XVI urged Moslems to disavow violence as a means to bring about conversion, millions chanted, “Kill the Pope!” It seems that you might have more in common with these fanatics than the Holy Father. If the Pope is truly the Vicar of Christ and you oppose and ridicule him, would this not make you an antichrist?
I am glad you married your wife because of love. I became a priest because of love. However, I always tried to act honestly and from conviction. My entire life is dedicated to God’s service, loving God by ministering to his people. While a teacher, I am also a perpetual student. We can disagree about various points, but I do not see lies when I examine Catholicism. As a matter of fact, I would not accuse Protestant churches of lies, either. There are many good Protestant churchmen who study and teach and work with honesty and professionalism. You would not extend such words of courtesy to the Pope or to a lowly priest and pastor like me.
I am glad you still believe strongly in Jesus Christ. That may be the one element we share. The doctrine of purgatory is a facet of soteriology. We must be made perfect. The elect want to be made perfect. Everything is grace. We are redeemed, given faith and perfected by grace. We cannot save ourselves. Prayers for the dead are literally our way of adding our breath to that divine fire which purifies us like the gold in the furnace. In the end there will only be two realities, heaven and hell. Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. There is no other way to the Father. This is basic Catholic teaching 101.
The stipends for Masses are gifts to the priest. At one time they were the only resources he had to live upon. But the priest will apply the fruits of his Mass even without remuneration for the effort. Ultimately, the sacraments are free. The priest is duty-bound to pray for his people, living and dead. It will be upon that, that he will be judged.
I can give you a long list of popes, bishops, priests, deacons and laity who accept and teach about purgatory. Looking at your list, did you know that Billy Graham has said that the Catholic Gospel is the same as his? Did you know that he contacts the local Catholic churches when he does revivals and sends Catholics who answer the altar call to Catholic churches? Did you know that he has shared his pulpit with Catholic clergy? Evidently he does not see the doctrine of purgatory as an impediment in witnessing the faith alongside Catholics. Do you really think that your venom would please him? I would not be surprised that you turn on him now, like so many other Fundamentalist bigots have chosen to do.
Sometimes the truth does hurt. You say it does not. But that is the problem, it is supposed to hurt. The freedom that we know demanded the great “hurt” of the cross. Our Lord invites us to take up our crosses and follow him.
DENNIS:
I can no longer see any point in discussing things with someone who continues to assume so much about me.
FATHER JOE:
I assume nothing; you come out and reveal what you are about to us all.
DENNIS:
As for BILLY GRAHAM, sharing the pulpit with catholics does not mean he believes in purgatory.
FATHER JOE:
But it does mean that he sees no problem with such a belief and views Catholicism as a saving Christian faith.
DENNIS:
By accepting JESUS as our savior he enters us and lives HIS life through us.
FATHER JOE:
Actually, by accepting Jesus, we enter into his life and are transformed. There is a two-fold movement. We accept the redemptive intervention of Christ. We believe in the infusion of divine grace. We believe that Jesus enters us through the gift of Holy Communion. Jesus became a man (coming to us) that we might have a share in his divine and eternal life (entering into the divine mystery). You do not believe in such a transformation or becoming a new creation in Christ. Those who reject purgatory tend to subscribe to the Lutheran view of juridical imputation. This has been labeled by one critic as salvation by disguise. We must enter into and make our own the mystery of Christ. Christianity is an incarnational religion. Christ lives in us. We must give birth to Christ’s presence, proclamation and activity through our lives.
DENNIS:
We are cleansed by the blood he shed for us.
FATHER JOE:
His blood makes possible the remission of sins.
DENNIS:
But basically you are saying that is not enough and that we need purgatory.
FATHER JOE:
No, you are saying that, Catholic teaching sees no conflict in the redemptive work of Jesus with purgatory. Our Lord makes possible our approach to God and our entry into heaven. We must still participate and accept his gift. Souls that belong to God but are not yet perfected, endure purgation as they approach heaven. Not all souls pass through purgatory.
DENNIS:
Purgatory therefore is a higher trump card than CHRIST.
FATHER JOE:
Purgatory is no trump card at all. Souls that pass through purgation are all headed toward heaven.
DENNIS:
As for the pope, he is the head of the catholic church, not all Christianity.
FATHER JOE:
The Catholic Church is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. All true Christians are in some fashion, even if tenuously, attached to this Church. In that sense, Catholicism is the purest form and the true Christianity.
DENNIS:
As for calling me silly about the criminal, fine if you want to resort to name calling, but this is an issue I prayed about and this is where God directed me, but as you have little respect for me you probably won’t believe me.
FATHER JOE:
I did not call you a “criminal.” Using the word, I was referring to the few misbehaving priests. What you said (about the good thief) was silly. And please be honest, you never had any respect for me from the very beginning. How could you, since you regard the pope as the antichrist and me as one of his minions. What do I think about you personally? I do not think I actually shared much of anything about that, except for a deep disappointment. You pray, and that is good. Prayer is certainly positive, but remember the posture of humility and the need to feed your faith with truth.
DENNIS:
Also I will repeat, just because I don’t want to attend the catholic church anymore does not mean a defection from Christ.
FATHER JOE:
Only you can know this in your own conscience. As for me, any departure from the Church would constitute turning my back on Jesus.
DENNIS:
Also I will credit you with teaching what you believe, it is just that I do not believe some of the catholic teachings and have moved on.
FATHER JOE:
That is fine, but remember this is my blog, and I have a right to express my faith here. I also get the last word.
DENNIS:
You say yourself there are only two realities, heaven and hell. I guess with purgatory no one will see hell.
FATHER JOE:
Why would you say this? The existence of hell is also Catholic doctrine. Once again, here is a statement that proves to me that you really do not understand Catholic teaching. Traditional Catholic eschatology is very clear. Some souls go straight to heaven (forever). Some souls go straight to hell (forever). Some souls go to heaven but pass through purgation (so that they can be perfect in heaven). Souls in purgatory have been forgiven. Like those in heaven, they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb. All souls in purgatory will go to heaven. When the end comes and the final consummation, there will be two realities, heaven and hell. Purgatory will cease to exist.
DENNIS:
Again, thanks for your time. The many things that you have assumed about me certainly do not demonstrate love. To call someone a bigot is HORRIBLE. I would never refer to someone this way even if I thought that way about them.
FATHER JOE:
You cannot have it both ways. You insult the Pope as the antichrist and imply that Catholicism is involved with witchcraft and false religion. I am a priest; mock and malign the Pope and the Church and you impugn me as well. I call it as I see it. I speak the hard truth in love. Yes, Dennis you are an anti-Catholic bigot. You might love Jesus but you have amply shown that you hate his Church. I am spiritually married to that Church and have given up wife and family to serve God with a single-hearted love. You probably feel that I have wasted my life. You have no love and no desire for priests or the sacrifice of the Mass in your life. I became a priest to offer the Mass for the living and the dead. I became a priest, so that like St. Paul, who was an ambassador for Christ and a minister of reconciliation, that I might bring our Lord’s forgiveness of sins to the lives of God’s people. This is not my job. This is my identity and vocation. But I guess I am talking to the wind. You are too far gone to understand. As you said, you have moved on. I will pray for you. Maybe one day you will wake up, and even if you do not come home to the Church, maybe you will again see that good Catholics are your Christian brothers and sisters? Enough said!
Filed under: Catholic, Church, Eschatology, God, Jesus, Pope |
Blogger Priest 
Fr. Joe,
First, I have found your dialogue here with Dennis very enlightening as well as entertaining.
I have come across all to many protestants/non-Catholics who see fit to argue Catholic doctrine based on sensationalized half-truths in order to paint the Church as corrupt or crazy. In my experience, this is usually the result of rabid anti-Catholic upbringing mixed with a culture of very secular/sensationalized anti-Catholic media.
It’s been very interesting to read one such person try to argue these points with a well-educated priest.
Thanks,
Gabriel
Came on to your Blog, Father Joe, when I was doing some research on Hannity, and Father Euteneur — Was grateful for your clarification in defending Father Euteneur, and the church — Would like to hear more from our pulpits on the issue of Pro-life. Thank you, and GOD BLESS.
Fr. Joe
Help me understand better the nuns who were going “beyond Jesus” in the 2007 conference of Religious Women. My question is, if they are “sojourners” and study comparative religions and borrow ways to grow closer to God, and reject the Pope and Dogma of the church, and say they believe in the Values of the Gospel, and that other religions know God too, why are they still catholic and christian because they even if Christ is the head and we are all the body, and he died for all, and is God, why do they deny him in the Trinity? Mother Teresa was just as much ecumenical as they are, and she still asked, “Is’nt Jesus enough?”
It seems they do not follow a good spirit the way they do not like men, and critize Luke’s treatment of women. I cannot see why they incorporate Wicca practices? Personally I think psycho spiritually they are in internal conflict about feeling good about themselves. They do not believe in a personal diety. They say it is dead, yet people can be arid, dry and in the dark not of the senses, and not deny Jesus.I understand that things happen, but they really effect my faith, because they do not have good fruits of the Holy Spirit in their intentions. Love the earth and the energy of the Universe, New *ge stuff…Please help me understand why so I may pray for them to come back.
Thank you,
Lynn
Critics of the Catholic faith, please look into our teachings and study it . Do not focus on us Catholics because we are just like you, human and sinful. A great number of us are lost ,too and it is not because our Church is misleading us. It is just so challenging to be a practicing Catholic. Talk about natural contraception, marriage between man and woman, morals on divorce to name a few.
Mr. Dennis,
Purgatory was created because of God’s love,mercy, and justice. His Love because He wants us to be with him in perfection. His Mercy because He wants us to get another chance to be with Him in heaven. His Justice because each and every one of us who believed in Him is held accountable according to how we have served Him. He is simply being fair. I do not think that I have to go deep into the Catholic Church teaching to believe in purgatory. It just makes sense.
I was not attempting to dig up dirt , just trying to make the point that even non-catholics make donations. Such was the case in this situation because many knew him. It was unfortunate that he abused donations to abuse young men.
The priest was Fr John Duarte and he served as a priest here in southwestern, Ontario,Canada. He was tried and sentenced here in Canada and served 18 months in prison.
Fr Joe, In the future I will allow you to respond to any comments directed to me. Obviously you feel censorship is a tool that can be used for deception.
There are other churches who help poor people etc. As for Haiti I donated money through the parish in the town I live.
I came here by route of Father Gordon’s These Stone Walls, having been buoyed by the humble support of Father Gordon offered by two prisoners whose conversion came about because of Father Gordon’s witness of faith and obedience in the face of a great temptation to despair.
I too commend your patience, Father, but I also understand it. You are going to be fighting to your last breath for Dennis to come to the fullness of faith and all the evidence that there is no money, glory or earthly reward in bringing souls back ‘home’ will not serve to prove.
Satan quotes scripture, we know and we also know that he loves those who reject the ‘hard truths’ of the Catholic church.
I wish people could understand better that Satan’s hatred of us is so complete, his whole aim to take souls away from God because he himself turned away from a creator who loved him beyond all measure. His pride and full knowledge prevents him from ever knowing the love and warmth that at one time was his to have, because God so loved him.
If we imagine Satan’s crazy rage spurred by hopeless despair at his eternal loss it becomes a little easier to see why people would be so blinded by administrative and earthly technicalities so that they will not see that the message of 2000 years has not changed ONLY in the Catholic church and that just stepping away from a pride filled day of furious online writing could expose people to the countless acts of mercy, compassion and even mortal rescue that ONLY the Catholic church, existing in nearly every country, provides.
Haiti? Our mission led the efforts to provide some form of organization to the hapless efforts to help the victims.
America? Every city that falls short of serving its poor, its homeless, its mentally ill, its elderly, has the slack picked up by the Catholic church and its mission of dignity from birth to natural death, NOT similarly funded with 6 BILLION as is Planned Parenthood and its racist death march.
Asia? Countless martyrs of people similarly bent on facing the deluge of ignorant hostility to bring peace and faith.
Dennis here I guess tries Father’s patience but through Grace Father is brought back to the hope to be able to say one thing that will cut through the wall of ignorance supernaturally formed by his unwitting aid to Satan. Any who is not for teh Catholic church and would seek its disintegration has to, by definition, be against it and Christ made no doubt about the fate of those who do that. Hency, Father’s amazing patience and thank you for letting us see that because I myself was tempted to just have Dennis take his dialogue and leave…but that is not the Good Shepherd’s aim.
For some reason Dennis found this site and we know that it’s all but impossible that Satan would want him exposed to such a faith filled place, so this must be one of those mysteries where God has His hand in everything and works to bring about good.
Plus, it’s sure a great lesson to me today,when my rosary recitation was definitely ‘blah’ and not accompanied by any transcendent feeling of Grace at work.
Thank you and God bless you, Father and you, Dennis.
Dennis, in all honesty I have to say that it is very difficult for me to have a discussion with someone who thinks that the Pope sanctions devil worship. I am generally open to many different points of view as I realize that people come from many different backgrounds and have different life experiences which affect their world view and I try to understand. However, even I have my limits. I will address a couple of points, though.
The fact that President Obama said that this is not a Christian nation is a non-sequitur to my statement that Canada has become a more secular nation than the U.S. (we may not be far behind, though). The president can say a number of things; some of them may be fact and some just his own opinion. You can easily look up the statistics and facts for yourself. I am quite confident in my assertion.
In a strict sense, we are not a “Christian nation” as we have no official State religion and do not craft our laws according to any particular religion; although, our laws are based on Judeo-Christian philosophy (belief system) rather than Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. The majority of Americans identify as Christian, either practicing ones or culturally. At any rate, I don’t have the time nor inclination to get into a huge debate over the issue, nor is it appropriate for this topic. I was only seeking to comment that it is sometimes difficult for a person of faith to persevere in an increasingly secular society where religion and religious beliefs are marginalized or made to look foolish and anachronistic.
On the issue of the New World Order and One World Government: from everything I have read and learned, there is something to this. Yes, there appear to be some very wealthy and powerful people (elites) who think that such a new order can be worked to their advantage and that their power and wealth will exempt them from the ill effects. Erasing borders, eliminating or weakening national sovereignty, globalization is all part of the process. It’s a legitimate point. However, one must be really careful to differentiate between fact and conspiracy theory. I know it’s tough to do sometimes because the very topic is kind of unbelievable (that there are people who really want this). To me, it is a very complicated issue with many facets. That’s why I say one must be very careful in choosing his/her reference sources.
There are very serious and credible people who have been following the goings-on with the U.N., the Hague, etc., and they pretty much stick to provable facts and statements made by those involved themselves and don’t get into the wild conspiracy theory. That’s all I have to say on this topic. Peace to you.
Fr. Jenkins, Thank God for the gift of patience he has given you! The Truth in Love–also a gift.
Today I found your blog while researching keywords “Pope JPII kisses the Koran”. I like all that you had to say on this topic. I also read what James Akin had to say on his site, http://www.jimmyakin.org and recommend anyone with lingering questions to also read his reply.
I used to frequent chatrooms but not-so-much these days as I became disgusted by the hate and bigotry against Catholics I witnessed in many rooms. At one time, I would attempt to reason with such people but have come to the conclusion that it is not possible to reason someone out of a situation they have not already reasoned themselves into. My heart aches when I see words of hate; knowing they will be held accountable for every careless word. Not only is it damaging to the soul; it damages the entire Body of Christ. I wonder if bigots understand this?
I’m not sure if Protestant pastors are teaching bigotry and hatred from the pulpit or, as I discovered in many cases, people are foregoing attending church services for home-schooled, bible-only [supposed]Holy Spirit taught services.
That was a tongue-twister and probably explains the numerous conflicting ‘Holy Spirit’ taught ‘truths’ that haunt Protestantism.
Fr. Jenkins, Thank you for speaking the Truth and allowing me to share my thoughts. Peace of Christ be with you.
I must make a correction to my previous posting. I mistakenly thought that Fr. Joe had said psychics, that is why I put evil …sorry
I could read a physics book and not understand it either. I am not into such evil.
But I understand the bible when I read it and pray about things I don’t understand.
You want me to read catholic works and books..and talk to a priest. I obviously know what they will tell me.
A new world order will mean one government eventually. Thank God this idea (Hitler) has been defeated in the past.
And you have made your point. You think I am a bigot.
I am not into crazy conspiracies.
I am 55 years old,worked extremely hard for 37 years in a factory and have seen plenty. I have formed many opinions based on personal observation.
I am not out to score anything. You have made some points that are more opinion than fact.
And also .FR Joe could you at least leave my postings as one.
Not posting it sentence by sentence with your comment under each.
However I realize this is your blog and you can do what you feel best.
Also one of my postings was directed to Christa. However you responded to it before giving her the opportunity. Perhaps you should consider allowing the person that the comment is directed to the first response. Thank you.
TO FR. JOE….
Yes i do know Jesus Christ as my saviour. I also read the Bible all the time.
You criticize any information I have yet I am expected to believe every piece of information you tell me.
And the late pope used the words New World Order.
What I am opposed to is certain teachings not Christ but you like to manipulate.
Again thank you for calling me names.
At least you are consistent. Also the word toleration is used very lightly today. Just stop and think how many evils started with toleration, then came infiltration, then domination and finally ruination.
Homosexuality, abortion and devil worship are some of the bi-products.
I didn’t say the pope subscribed to witchcraft, but at Assisi II nothing was done to stop it.
This is similar to the church knowing about sexual misconduct and taking forever to do anything about it.
I have no hatred for anyone.
Fr. Joe and I do respect the fact the you have devoted your life to Christ. Thanks again for your time.
Only he who has been cleansed of sins sees things as they truly are.
Dear Padre,
Salutations.
Regarding your question “Should I delete Pastor’s remarks?”
for your consideration:
Pastor, like the rest of us, is one of your sheep.
Pray for his soul, and ask the Dispenser of Divine Graces to provide the graces necessary for conversion.
Should he rebuke these graces, then ask him to send in his remarks and censor them charitably.
Pray for the intersession of the Saints.
We will pray the Lord strenghten you.
I entrust this whole matter in the hands of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, “Mother of the Priest par excellence, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and through Him, of all priests in whom she forms her Son”.
*
Should I delete Pastor’s remarks?
The Devil always mixes Truth in his poison to make it more palatable.
We as Catholics know that it took someone from within the Church to betray Christ. His name was Judas. He was a Bishop and Priest of Holy Mother Church.
When Christ established the Catholic Church as His Bride, He set Peter as the first Pontiff, or Pope.
There are many faults with the hierarchy of the Church; the Church however, is without stain.
Man is continually under assault from the Father of Lies, who tempts people to anger against Christ and His Bride.
If your demeanor is anger, you need to rebuke Satan, not the Priesthood of Christ, which is in the Order of Melchizedek.
“Son, there is your Mother. Mother, there is your son.”
Go to your Mother, that she may care for you as her son. Take time to rest in her bosom, where Satan cannot attack you.
“Am I not here, your Mother, who keeps you in the fold of her mantle?”
Never was it known that anyone that implored her help was left unaided.
Storm Heaven with your prayers:
Soul of Christ, sanctify me. Body of Christ, save me. Blood of Christ, inebriate me. Water from Christ’s side, wash me …
To Crista…
I don’t have faith in a secular society. I have faith in JESUS CHRIST.
Also I am not angry, just attempting to make some points.
Also go to YOUTUBE and look up DEVIL WORSHIP ALLOWED BY JOHN PAUL II AT ASSISI II.
And Canada more secular than the U.S.? It is your president who stated that America is no longer a Christian nation. The vatican is in favour of THE NEW WORLD ORDER, Pope John Paul stated this in a speech. This will open the door for the antichrist.
Also people need to realize that INTIMIDATION, DOMINATION and MANIPULATION define witchcraft.
The trouble with your family is that they are not Protestant enough. If they really believed and wanted to save you from eternal death, they would put up a fight with you. Catholics place their trust in men and not in God. They think paying a priest to pray for them and their dead will save them, but only the Lord Jesus Christ can save you. Prophecy proves that the pope is the antichrist and that means the idolatry of the Roman Catholics is the worship of demons. How can I or any true Christian have fellowship with the devil’s slaves? Proof of this situation is the pope kissing the Quran. Allah is not Jehovah but a tribal demon deity. The pope says the God of the Christians and Jews is the same as the Muslims. Given their murderous appetites, this is definitely not true. Of course, given the persecution and murder of millions by Romanism, there probably is a tie in with Catholic worship. I will never respect false religion and neither should you! Dennis is right. This priest wants to share his lies on his blog and we have a responsibility to offer the corrective of the truth!
Dennis has every reason to be upset and passionate in the cause. Our Lord condemned those who are neither hot nor cold. No papist Catholic is a brother or sister in Christ to me! I bet you are a Catholic indoctrinated by their lies. Everything today is condemned as bigotry. If you oppose Romanism and the papal antichrist, you are a bigot. If you think abortionists should go to jail, you are a bigot. If you think sodomy should be a crime and homosexuals should be arrested, you are a bigot. If you think the proper place for a woman is in the home having babies, you are a bigot. If you think all real men should have wives unlike the Catholic predator priests, you are a bigot. If you think there should be no intermarriage between the races, you are a bigot. The list goes on and on. You and your kind are the true bigots with your name-calling and prejudice against true Christians.
Dennis, some members of my extended family are Protestant–I’m talking PhD types here, missionaries also. Recently I attended a memorial service for one of them and sat in front of the pulpit on which was inscribed the words, “Sola Scriptura.” I didn’t pitch a hissy and get all huffy because this is their sincere belief. I might disagree with them, but I understand they have a different theological perspective and I respect that. In turn, they respect my beliefs.
This is the blog of a Catholic priest. What do you expect him to be blogging about? If you visited the blog of an evangelical preacher, what do you think he’d be blogging about? When you come onto his blog, guns blazing, mocking the Pope and calling him the anti-Christ (and insulting all his bishops and priests by extension), it can come across as somewhat bigoted.
What I’m saying is that I think it is fine that you don’t agree with Catholic church theology. But why be so angry about it? My relatives aren’t angry. They just think they are right and we are wrong. It doesn’t anger me either. I respect that they have a different tradition. We still see each other as brothers/sisters in Christ. See, it doesn’t need to be that awful.
It’s great to question the tenets of one’s faith I believe, because it forces you to learn why you believe what you believe. But you don’t have to get angry about it or denigrate someone else’s beliefs to do so.
There’s so much I want to say here, but for the sake of brevity I cannot. I am a young Catholic and I’m not really a good one (I don’t think). I question a lot of Church teachings also. My priest and I have had some great conversations and sometimes he says I’m “killing him,” but he perseveres! lol
There’s a difference between official dogma and stuff people in the church say. Not everything every priest or bishop says is dogma. Bishops can issue a letter which is meant to guide their people on a certain issue, but people can disagree because the topic isn’t one of set dogma. Do you know what I’m saying? Like issues of war or illegal immigration. Many Catholics disagree on these issues with what their bishops, priests, or even the Pope might be saying. Even the issue of celibacy which you brought up in reference to the abuse scandal is a matter of church discipline in the Latin rite and not dogma. To dissent from issues which are not dogma doesn’t make one a heretic. ‘m always flapping around about this or that–things I have a hard time accepting. But I love God, believe He is present in the Eucharist, and so I keep trying. And my priest says it is fine for me to do so, that we are all sinners and on a spiritual journey. His job is to try to guide me on my journey (he’s got a challenging job lol). It’s ok for you to be on a journey also. But you don’t have to get angry while you are on the journey. You really should find a nice priest and talk to him about your thoughts. Just see what he says. It might not change your mind, but you might see a different perspective. Also they are very professional and generally know their subject, unlike a lot of lay people (like me) who don’t always know what they are talking about. 🙂
I’m one of those Catholics who didn’t agree with the Pope kissing the Qu’ran. But I never interpreted that action as that he was repudiating his Christian faith! He was trying to be respectful and somehow smooth relations with the Islamic world. If it’s any consolation to you, I doubt that this current Pope will be kissing any Qu’rans soon. I could be wrong, of course (but I don’t think so).
The Wiccan thing you said just blew me away. I’ve heard some whoppers about Catholic beliefs, but this one really got my attention. In the type of work I am in, I come into contact with a lot of people with some really “out there” belief systems. I am friends with some people who are Wiccans. My priest is constantly warning me away from them. I think he is unnessarily concerned as these are very peaceful and non-threatening people. I’m only bringing this up as it would be highly unlikely that anyone at the Vatican is encouraging the practice of Wicca. But in a pluralistic society like ours where religious freedoms are guaranteed, we have to respect peoples’ religious choices as long as they do not conflict with our Constitution or our laws. That’s the meaning of “tolerance” I think–you don’t have to embrace someone’s choices, or even agree with them. You have to allow them their choice. We aren’t a Church-run theocracy (nor do we want to be!). Canada is ever so more secular than the U.S., so I am sure you understand this concept. Kudos to you for having faith in such a secular society; I know it can’t be easy.
Hope this helped you in some way. Peace…
To FR.JOE…I have talked to catholic friends today and i asked them about the kissing of the quran..The all disagreed with what the pope did.
To Pablo…I don’t read funny papers.You and FR.JOE might be shocked that there are others Catholics who feel the same way.We become saints by accepting Jesus as our saviour….hence the song”WHEN THE SAINTS GO MARCHING IN”
I am not judging you,I am trying to make the point that any church that has had the many problems the Catholic church has had should not think it is the church of all truths
We don’t enter JESUS, HE enters us.
Some go straight to heaven, some to hell and some to purgatory.this is really the most stupid explanation ever.
And I will also tell you I have not been able to find one Christian who would kiss the Quran.
Have you seen a muslim kiss the bible? How about the book of mormon. Should we kiss it as well?
Mr. Dennis,
God will judge us, not you.
“…I would love to talk to you personally and see if you would call me such things to my face. God have mercy on you for being so judgmental and hateful…”
We should not threaten or harm Priests.
God grant that you resolve the questions you have and grant you the grace of Charity.
God calls us all to be Saints.
His priests are there to help us reach Sainthood and Heaven.
Don’t believe everything you read in the funny papers about Holy Mother Church.
God will judge us, not you.
God be with you.