THOMAS:
It’s hilarious how either you are completely indoctrinated about the history of the Jesuits/Catholic church and their many atrocities toward humanity or just an agent of disinformation. I suspect the latter. The Nazis modeled the SS from your precious Jesuits.
“Above all I have learned from the Jesuits. And so did Lenin too, as far as I recall. The world has never known anything quite so splendid as the hierarchical structure of the Catholic Church. There were quite a few things I simply appropriated from the Jesuits for the use of the [Nazi] Party.–Adolph Hitler
FATHER JOE:
It may be that Hitler envied the organization of the Jesuits and the Church. However, he planned to replace Catholicism and Christianity with a church of his own making, one based upon his racist ideology. Again, I am surprised that you would give him so much attention and credibility. What is your source for this quote?
It amazes me that there are still people who swallow anti-Catholic bigotry and parade their ignorance as legitimate scholarship and learning. Christians are just as much sinners as anyone else and in the history of the world there is plenty of blame to go around. The late Pope John Paul II offered his “mea culpas” as a magnanimous gesture from the Church for healing. However, instead of reciprocity, the world is still in denial and the atrocities of the third millennium are much as they were before. However, in the face of injustice and a culture of death, the Church is frequently the lone voice crying out for the oppressed and the unborn. At a time when religious liberty is threatened, she is the advocate for the poor and the hurting. The Church proclaims the Gospel of Life and Catholic believers even sacrifice their lives in the cause of freedom and in the defense of human dignity. Your blindness to this reality is what makes your apologetic so very tragic and disappointing. You inadvertently place yourself on the side of a darkness that seeks to overwhelm the light.
Heinrich Luitpold Himmler was raised a Catholic and yet he turned his back on the Church and Christianity. Focusing on a Germanic mythology, he embraced the occult while trying to strip away elements of Catholicism to make his new religion. While some claim that the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) was his model for the SS, it was actually the ancient Teutonic Knights. Hitler, himself a superstitious man, placed little confidence in Himmler’s mysticism and may have made a joke of calling him his “Ignatius of Loyola.” This may be where the confusion with the Jesuits started. But other than the elements of order and obedience, there were no similarities. The Jesuits defended the papacy and the Catholic faith. Himmler’s SS was the start of a so-called humanistic religion which worshipped Hitler.
THOMAS:
Since you are obviously educated in the art of logical fallacies, I was wondering if you will use ad hominem, guilt by association, begging the question or straw man. Maybe a combination of these and others? My guess is you will delete this post.
FATHER JOE:
Logical reasoning is not fallacious. You rely upon the actual tactics of the Nazis, telling the BIG LIE with the expectation that gullible people will believe it. There is no need for me to resort to an “ad hominem” argument in that you have sufficiently disgraced yourself without my assistance. I am unsure with whom you associate, but I can well imagine given the venom of your attack and style. The straw man is entirely yours. You create a false caricature of Catholicism (and the Jesuits) which you immediately impugn or tear down. I have read your quotes, and yet many of them are attributed to men who shared your uniformed biases against Catholicism. You even cite Hitler, as if a man who orchestrated the art of deception and murder could be trusted in anything he says.
THOMAS:
Here are a few quotes for you to deny.
“The Jesuits are a MILITARY organization, not a religious order. Their chief is a general of an army, not the mere father abbot of a monastery. And the aim of this organization is power – power in its most despotic exercise – absolute power, universal power, power to control the world by the volition of a single man. Jesuitism is the most absolute of despotisms – and at the same time the greatest and most enormous of abuses.”–Napoleon Bonaparte
FATHER JOE: Napoleon, like you, would also have his issues with the Church. He falsely viewed the Jesuits in terms of the very things which he coveted: power and empire. Napoleon was keenly concerned about the loyalty of hearts and minds. He dreaded competition from the Jesuits or the Church. The Jesuits were not a military organization, but a religious order founded by a former military man who put aside the sword. What is your source for this quote?
THOMAS:
“It is my opinion that if the liberties of this country – the United States of America – are destroyed, it will be by the subtlety of the Roman Catholic Jesuit priests, for they are the most crafty, dangerous enemies to civil and religious liberty. They have instigated MOST of the wars of Europe.”–Marquis de Lafayette
FATHER JOE: Lafayette shared the prejudices of many in France against the Jesuits. Indeed, such biases would lead Rome to suppress the Jesuits. All 23 priests in the thirteen colonies were former Jesuits. The irony was that they were defenders of the papacy. Lafayette was impressed by the Protestants in America and successfully worked for their co-existence with Catholics in France. What is your source for this quote?
THOMAS:
“The Jesuit Order at last reached the pinnacle of its power and prestige in the early eighteenth century [i.e., the early 1700s]. It had become more influential and more wealthy than any other organization in the world. It held a position in world affairs that no oath-bound group of men has ever held before or since… ‘Nearly all the Kings and Sovereigns of Europe had only Jesuits as directors of their consciences[i.e., as confessor-priests], so that the whole of Europe appeared to be governed by Jesuits only.’” (1927 / using a short quote by Jesuit Cordara)–Boyd Barrett (Ex-Jesuit)
FATHER JOE:
The situation with the ex-Jesuit Boyd Barrett was tragic because he very much believed in the Church and in his priesthood. He expressly wrote against condemning the Jesuit order and the Church as you and other anti-Catholics delight in doing. However, he suffered at the hypocrisy he found and in the hardness of hearts which can afflict the men placed over us. His book, The Jesuit Enigma (New York, 1927) both celebrates the saintly achievements of his order as well as laments its failures. Given his testimony, this would also include the shabby treatment shown its loyal sons. He writes (page 335-36): “Twenty years had passed since I had entered the Society of Jesus, believing in the description given of it by the Jesuit General Roothan, as ‘a splendid abiding-place of science, piety and virtue ; an august temple extending over the earthy consecrated to the glory of God and the salvation of souls’ I had given the best years of my life to the Society, striving as faithfully as I could to realize the ideal of the perfect Jesuit, ‘one who, having shed all personal interests and affections, clothes himself with Christ, and shows himself in labor, patience, charity and the love of truth the servant of God, fighting with the arms of Justice through days of ill-fame and days of honor.’”
You should note that The New York Times would carry a beautiful story about him, entitled, “EX-PRIEST EXPLAINS RETURN TO CHURCH; Dr. E. Boyd Barrett Says 22 Years of Brother’s Prayers Brought Reconciliation.” The article begins, “Dr. E. Boyd Barrett, who left the Roman Catholic Church and the Jesuit Order in 1924 after twenty years of education for and in the priesthood, publicly announced his reconciliation with the church yesterday.” Praise God!
THOMAS:
“All these things cause the Father-General [of the Jesuits] to be feared by the Pope and sovereigns… A sovereign who is not their [the Jesuits’] friend will sooner or later experience their vengeance.” (1852)–Luigi de Sanctis (Official Censor of the Inquisition)
FATHER JOE: Luigi de Sanctis left the priesthood and got married. As an Italian Protestant, he co-founded the Evangelical Christian Church and became a leading anti-Catholic apologist. I would hardly regard his criticisms of the faith as wholly credible. He leagued with the Waldensians. The pertinent book here is Popery and Jesuitism at Rome in the 19th Century, published in London, 1852. He found a market in Protestant England for speaking against the Church, the Jesuits and sacraments like Confession. He was a scandal to all those Jesuits martyred because they ministered and brought the faith back to England.
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